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One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

TheShootist's Avatar


TheShootist
01.03.2013 , 05:04 PM | #161
I have a Tank, DPS and Healer in full campaign/BH gear+ and I find several problems when running PUG FP's. The main problem is people undergeared not knowing the fights, the second are the people who rush the group, especially if I'm tanking. People let the tank lead the instance! I don't know how many times I've dropped a group because they were simply idiots.

Example I jump a trash group use my AOE taunt and grab the boss, just to have the DPS ignore the trash mobs and concentrate their fire on the boss. The healer dies, because he grabs aggro and blames the Tank for not holding aggro on the trash that should have been dead by now.

get into a LI HM and do a gear check, find out 2 of the group are in full recruit gear, tell them that they are undergeared for this fight, just to have them come back with some nasty comments, both are new players, not alts and never done the fight before, I quickly leave the group.

Many players don't like having to take charge of a PUG group, so they refuse to tank one and if are like me, tired of the inexperienced players joining Q.

TheBetty's Avatar


TheBetty
01.03.2013 , 05:17 PM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Mallorik View Post
I just had a surrreal experience in a lowbie fp i just have to share.

I was playing my 23 operative, qued as dps got in hammerstation, few pulls in our jugg tank is almost dead a few times, then dies. I see our commando healer has his dps barrel on, i ask, did he not realize he was dps? 3 times and 3 pulls and one tank death later he responds. But hes not speced heals so i tell him stay dps ill respec heals. Everything is fine until he disconnects a few pulls later and doesnt come back.

I ask the tank who is lead to reque us about 4 times but he never responds and even attacks the boss with the two bots, i cc the one you can cc and he attacks the boss, letting the other one beat on me the entire time. no biggy im 22 and well geared , well he finaly kills the boss then starts working on the ccd one while the other one continues to beat me. we finaly finish and i refuse to click the station until he reques us or atleast responds.

almost 5 minutes later the reque window comes up, we get a dps, oh joy. a shadow dps in tank stance, i just shut up and we move on. we get to the two champ turrets i cc the far one, our tank attacks the close one, our shadow tank/dps attacks the far one, i mention that its ccd a couple of times, no response.

We get to the last boss, im about to tell the jugg to put his back on the computer and dont point the boss at us, too late hes already jumped in. i mention not to face him towards us a few times, doesnt matter hes facing him at everyone wherever they go. no dps is doing anything about the adds, so im killing them and healing at the same time. we win and these idiots think we did a good job but dont realize its because they have a level 23 in full level 23 orange gear healing them.

I wasnt really mad i was just shocked that i could get a group almost entirely made up of morons and even get another moron when we kicked one out. Theres alot bioware could do to fix these problems that really make having fun hard, and a year of them not doing anything about it is just another example of how out of touch they are and why this game failed in the first place.
It's amusing watching a skilled/geared healer carry the entire group. I have been there myself, last night actually lol on my alt healer. I assume the group was either undergeared, or just fresh 50's which is cool. They took it slow and did things right so it wasn't painful.

That would be the reason it wasn't painful, that they took it slow and listened to each other. Knowing their gear limitations
If force choking Jawas is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Divona's Avatar


Divona
01.03.2013 , 05:17 PM | #163
OP i know what you mean even thou all my 4 lvl 50's are DPS specced but can offtank and heal.

Recently few days ago i was in HM FP (forgot which one) on my dps spec guard. What happened was simple, tank wasnt looking after pack of mobs or adds on boss fights. Pretty much never aoe taunted or hit them and "tanking" one by one. I saw poor healer betting pounded and healing himself madly. I swtiched to guard stance and shielded healer. Other dps was also badle geared sadly around 15k health. Tank gear i didnt check but health was around 17k so cant be good ether.
So there i was tanking and dps'ing as boss fights i had aggro most time even being in dps stance. Granted i got full BH+ 63 MH and OH.
But if whole group is so over geared for FP its desont matter if DPS takes full aoe aggro. All die so fast anyway.
I see problem when half group or 3 of 4 are not well geared or fresh 50's. That causes alot issues if one member in group dont use brain and makes things alot harder for all.
It is kinda funny that i have recently helped "tanks" quite a bit as dps guard.
Today i was in corellia BH weekly 4+ as dps again on guard and other dps said why dont i put shield on guard who was suppose to be main tank - wut ?

I got many other stories aswell seeing hilarious tanks and AWESOME healer who just got lvl 50 and saved whole group because tank seemed to fight mobs one by one and breaking cc's. I had to say to that healer he was better than i have seen many other well geared healers because with that bad gear to save gr from total wipe was insane.
I didnt die once while tank and other dps died often.

There are very few HM FP bosses i cant tank being on full dps gear and spec with focus OH rather shield but in soresu form. Therefor i say being able to offheal or offtank can be very valuable after seeing lately many new fresh 50's just dont got clue what to do in FP.

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
01.03.2013 , 07:47 PM | #164
To the original topic, the op is right but that is a very small reason for the shortage of tanks. The main reason is the same reason there is a shortage in all trinity based mmos, people dont want the responcibility, dps have a pretty hard time screwing up a group compared to a healer or tank, ive never seen a group whipe because a dps went afk in the middle of clearing trash.

A good example of this is wow when cataclysm firrst came out, everyone complained about the heroics being so hard, they werent really hard, they just had raid style boss encounters with mechanics that relied on dps payng attention as much as tanks and heals, most dps do not like to be held accountable thats why they play dps and why the really lazy ones even complain about dps meters so much.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.03.2013 , 08:19 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Mallorik View Post
... dps have a pretty hard time screwing up a group compared to a healer or tank, ive never seen a group whipe because a dps went afk in the middle of clearing trash.

...
I actually agree with you, but this comment reminded me of HM KP.

We've wiped on the trash pull right after the Fab more times than every boss in the instance combined.

Inevitably some yahoo dps will walk into the next room before CCs are in place. Next thing you know there are 8,432 murder droids giving us all vibroblade enemas.

Baby-Girl's Avatar


Baby-Girl
01.03.2013 , 08:41 PM | #166
Thank you for the original posting.... It is interesting that you make note of this now. As a tank, especially when I was a new tank trying to learn to control aggro. My biggest frustration was the speed at which ppl seem to want to rush through things and how the had no patience to wait for the tank to hit first.

No disrespect to the Sentinals... but if you want to tank, level a Guardian. Force Leap is a great skill and I understand it ties into a great rotation, high damage and fast kill; however, when you jump in and start smacking the crap out of things, you are not working on a team -- your are trying to kill everything alone. One strategy we have used in the past was to guard the DPS; however, often, we have gotten grief from the DPS for guarding them and not the healer. Logic says -- he who pulls aggro, gets the guard.

My point -- rushing through and forgetting you are in a group with complete strangers who may or may not know the mechanics or who may be learning a new role does not make for a fun GF OPS/FP run. In fact, it just leads to rage quits and nasty whispers. We are all here for fun and to learn the mechanics of the game. You may be full Hazmat/Dreadguard but your healer may be tier zero. Show some consideration and follow these simple guidelines:

- Ask the question, Do you know the fights?
- No? Explain them as you go
- Tanks, take 5 seconds and type where you are tanking a boss (thinking of Iron Fist in Essesles in particular)
- Healers, don't pre-heal your tanks... doing so immediately means that at the start of the fight, you have the highest threat which makes it harder to get aggro back.
- DPS, show some respect and use whatever threat drops you have on your toon. Just because you can crit 6000k hit points on Nightmare Pilgrim doesn't mean that it's neccessary to do so on a mob of 6 level 50 regulars and strongs.
- Mind the CCs and mark them.
-- on that note, whether you choose to mark CC or not, mention it to the group.. some ppl think the Gun symbol is the NPC they are to hit first which, is often what ticks ppl off.

More importantly, if you wipe -- it's part of the game. Be patient and don't freak out.

For the noobs out there, if you have never run a FP, try to get ppl from your guild to run you through the first time so you can watch the story. After 9 months at level 50, I want to space-bar through it *cough Essesles*

Great thread guys I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

SaberBladeUK's Avatar


SaberBladeUK
01.03.2013 , 08:58 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I actually agree with you, but this comment reminded me of HM KP.

We've wiped on the trash pull right after the Fab more times than every boss in the instance combined.

Inevitably some yahoo dps will walk into the next room before CCs are in place. Next thing you know there are 8,432 murder droids giving us all vibroblade enemas.

On my server, we call those The Wipe Rooms. I'm a Shadow tank and will always use blackout in order to get close and CC one of the two technicians in the room, but more than often someone follows me, or rushes into the room first, or will just randomly tab and leap to the first thing they lock onto.

--

I have a DPS, a Healer and my main character, the Shadow tank and if I ever want to do group finder with a pug group, tank is the best way to go. It's not very often I will have to wait for group finder to pop for a flashpoint, it's usually right away . My healer requires a bit of a wait and my DPS... I don't even bother unless queued with at least 1 more guild member.

But there is still another side of this coin, as I've seen tanks get real attitudes and usually aimed at the healers. They'll stack endurance, completely ignore mitigation and then rage quit because a party wipes simply because the healer (or healers in Ops) have to focus all their attention on keeping that tanks 28-30k HP full because they are taking much more damage than they should be.

Dabrixmgp's Avatar


Dabrixmgp
01.03.2013 , 09:02 PM | #168
I tank but only in PvP and refuse to even queue for instances. The reason is they are boring and theres always that guy who forgets he has a spacebar and it makes them take even longer. I didnt think it was possible for a game to make small man PvE more boring than WoW but it seems Bioware succeeded. I only have full War Hero Tank gear and everything is faceroll. Im not even PvE geared.