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DPS Operative : When do I get my buff?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
DPS Operative : When do I get my buff?

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
01.03.2013 , 01:12 PM | #101
Kind of funny that I keep hearing about the alleged operative "stunlock". People do realize that they only have one real stun that lasts for 4 seconds, right? And that snipers have that exact same stun? Sure, ops have that 1.5 second knockdown, so that time should be factored in as well, yet, however, again people do realize that assassins have the same thing too? The same knock down duration and a 4-second stun? Oh yes, and deception assassins also get that other stun with low slash. Yet no one ever talks about assassins "stunlocking" people to death. Don't get me wrong, I love my assassin, I'm just saying that yes, they are class a that's a real threat and can hold their own. Op/scoundrel though...they aren't anywhere near as scary as people make them sound. I'm tired of hearing all about how they can stunlock people to death making it sound as if they had more stuns than any other class which simply isn't true. If your an op/scoundrel you better hope your opponent is majorly undergeared or suffers from terrible lag.

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
01.03.2013 , 01:35 PM | #102
So funny.

People say DPS operatives are balanced because a few out there are really powerful. Unfortunately, you can't balance around the top 1% of players.

People say DPS operatives are fine because they are excellent at 1v1. Sure, they can be, but unfortunately, this requires getting off the opener, and then basically burning all cooldowns and energy to take someone down. Duels are also very different than standard PVP. Try taking out a guarded healer as an operative, and it's much more difficult.


Fact of the matter is, DPS Operatives are a broken spec for PVP. They get some burst, but it doesn't even rival the other classes. Pyrotechs and Smash Warriors deal a lot more, and a lot easier. Operatives depend on getting their opener from stealth, which can be a very tricky thing to do against moving targets. Their two defensive cooldown are weak, and rarely prolong an Operative's life beyond a few seconds. Assassin's at least get to ignore all CC when they pop their 3-second defensive cooldown.

Vanish is pretty much worthless against any opponent who knows what they're doing. It's simply to easy to get knocked out of stealth right after using that cooldown. Much better to just save it for getting in a second opener for DPS.

The speed boost they received is laughably slow compared to a leap or sprint. It's not really useful for escape or gaining on an opponent, even if it's duration is slightly longer.


Operatives and Scoundrels in DPS simply have a lot of problems compared to other DPS specs. And they get no utility besides stealth, and Assassins can do that better anyway. Maybe someday they will get their buff. Maybe with the level cap. That's all I hope for these days.

(At least the healer spec is good)

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
01.03.2013 , 02:09 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Solarenergy View Post
Kind of funny that I keep hearing about the alleged operative "stunlock". People do realize that they only have one real stun that lasts for 4 seconds, right? And that snipers have that exact same stun? Sure, ops have that 1.5 second knockdown, so that time should be factored in as well, yet, however, again people do realize that assassins have the same thing too? The same knock down duration and a 4-second stun? Oh yes, and deception assassins also get that other stun with low slash. Yet no one ever talks about assassins "stunlocking" people to death. Don't get me wrong, I love my assassin, I'm just saying that yes, they are class a that's a real threat and can hold their own. Op/scoundrel though...they aren't anywhere near as scary as people make them sound. I'm tired of hearing all about how they can stunlock people to death making it sound as if they had more stuns than any other class which simply isn't true. If your an op/scoundrel you better hope your opponent is majorly undergeared or suffers from terrible lag.
I think that the Stunlock terminology comes from the pre 1.1 days of Scrappers, back when the Shoot First knockdown was 3 seconds. I remember back then when you hit a target for a 3 second knockdown, waited a moment for resolve to drop, kicked them for 4, and then popped Disappearing Act to get yet another Shoot First into yet another 3 second knockdown. Now that was a stunlock.

These days, the term is just meaningless, as you rightly point out. I do know that some players get annoyed by the 30s CD on Dirty Kick, and they feel as if they are always being stunned for 5.5 seconds every time that same annoying Op/Scrap jumps them. But those players are also inexperienced, undergeared, and/or just plain bad. Our stunlock is basically identical to that of a Sin/Shadow. Our kick has a 30s CD. Their 4s stun has a 50s (or 60s) CD. Spike is a 2s stun with a 30s CD. Shoot First is a 1.5s stun that can only be used from stealth. When you average those out over the course of a fight, Sins/Shadows really have the same stunning capabilities as we do.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
01.04.2013 , 04:15 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
I think that the Stunlock terminology comes from the pre 1.1 days of Scrappers, back when the Shoot First knockdown was 3 seconds. I remember back then when you hit a target for a 3 second knockdown, waited a moment for resolve to drop, kicked them for 4, and then popped Disappearing Act to get yet another Shoot First into yet another 3 second knockdown. Now that was a stunlock.

These days, the term is just meaningless, as you rightly point out. I do know that some players get annoyed by the 30s CD on Dirty Kick, and they feel as if they are always being stunned for 5.5 seconds every time that same annoying Op/Scrap jumps them. But those players are also inexperienced, undergeared, and/or just plain bad. Our stunlock is basically identical to that of a Sin/Shadow. Our kick has a 30s CD. Their 4s stun has a 50s (or 60s) CD. Spike is a 2s stun with a 30s CD. Shoot First is a 1.5s stun that can only be used from stealth. When you average those out over the course of a fight, Sins/Shadows really have the same stunning capabilities as we do.
Right. In stunlock wars, the bubble has won.

Operative got a bad rep when people could stack a bunch of powerups and destroy people. But that isn't the case.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
01.04.2013 , 04:50 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by RyanReagan View Post
I'm getting ripped apart by smashers. They can build smashes faster than the cd on evasion.

Please fix, I'm currently paying to feel worthless in PvP, but don't know how long before I stop paying and take up a new hobby.
You mean nerf, soon, very very soon.

In all seriousness though, it's not just you getting smashed to death, I've pvped on my jugg in full tank gear, 1200 expertise, 24k hp, 30% defense/50% shield/25% absorb + absorb proc relic, still take 4500 smashes. If there's 3-4 smashers together, like there has been lately, I won't make it from grabbing the ball to the acid pit before dying.
Lightsabers, Force Choke, Force Lightning, Jedi Mind Tricks, what else could you want from an MMO? There may be other MMOs out there, but do they have Lightsabers?....Do They?

Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

Thoop's Avatar


Thoop
01.04.2013 , 04:59 PM | #106
ops the get hit by smash should get a 100% armor pen buff for 6 seconds. I'd be ok with that
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
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LoL-K-Noob's Avatar


LoL-K-Noob
01.04.2013 , 05:00 PM | #107
Never with concealment. You can still stunlock someone to 20% who has 1314 expertise. Atleast with smash im stunlocked to 50%

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
01.04.2013 , 05:02 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Our stunlock is basically identical to that of a Sin/Shadow. Our kick has a 30s CD. Their 4s stun has a 50s (or 60s) CD. Spike is a 2s stun with a 30s CD. Shoot First is a 1.5s stun that can only be used from stealth. When you average those out over the course of a fight, Sins/Shadows really have the same stunning capabilities as we do.
Not true, play a shadow/sin. When you spike somebody, they get knocked down, then basically teleport back up and are ready to fight. On an operative/scoundrel, you use shoot first and they're knocked down for 1.5 secs, THEN the animation of them starting to stand back up begins, which is like another 2 seconds. During the animation of them getting back up is when you can pull the most burst. On an assassin/shadow, after you spike someone, they can basically instantly stun you, I know because I've not only done it myself after being spiked as well as having been stunned by others I've spiked immediately after spike. On operatives/scoundrels, shoot first and you're going to have like 3-4 seconds of stun immunity.

So yeah, nerf operatives.
Lightsabers, Force Choke, Force Lightning, Jedi Mind Tricks, what else could you want from an MMO? There may be other MMOs out there, but do they have Lightsabers?....Do They?

Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

Baalzamon's Avatar


Baalzamon
01.04.2013 , 06:56 PM | #109
Buff Operatives and Scoundrels damage.

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
01.07.2013 , 12:10 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Baalzamon View Post
Buff Operatives and Scoundrels damage.
At least on lacerate. That thing isn't worth the GCD you give it most of the time the only time worth using it is when your other good attacks (HS,BS,EP,SHIV) are on cooldown.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>