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Telekinetics Sage: what to do on the move?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Telekinetics Sage: what to do on the move?

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.03.2013 , 05:12 AM | #1
Hoping you guys can help me here.

I finally got round to leveling my sage that had been sitting at level 12 on the Fleet for the past 6 months (got distracted by leveling other toons ). I hit level 24 yesterday, I am specced into Telekinetics and I am having a blast with my Sage.

However, I've noticed that we are missing a "ranged-no-cost-instant-ability" that we can use when forced to move or as a quick finisher for mobs at low-health (where using a force ability would be overkill in terms of Force use and damage done). Just like other hard-cast/turret ranged classes (Commando/Mercenary/Gunslinger/Sniper) get from their base class (Hammer Shots/Rapid Shots/Flurry of Bolts/Rifle Shot).

As far as I can tell, the only things we can use on the move are Weaken Mind (which does *NO* damage up front) and Project (that costs Force *and* has a 6 second cooldown).

If I have to move and Project is on cooldown I find myself doing "nothing" until I can stop again.

For the low-health mobs I find myself casting something (anything) but (a) 9 out of 10 times the mob dies before any of our "oh so long" cast ends or (b) I hit a mob with 90 health for 400 damage and consume a (comparatively) huge amount of Force for the damage needed.

My question is:
What do you guys do when you are forced to move (and Project is on cooldown) or want to finish off a low-health mob ?

Nothing (like me)? Something else that I am missing?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
01.03.2013 , 06:02 AM | #2
AOE's are usually suitable, especially if there are other mobs nearby.

Forcewave knocks back and kills weakened mobs.

The only free attack we have is a melee range 3-hit combo which is weak but you can use it if you like.

If all else really is on CD and you have nothing to do, use the time to reposition yourself, ready for next attack.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.03.2013 , 06:19 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
AOE's are usually suitable, especially if there are other mobs nearby.
Hmm... I could be wrong, but isn't Forcequake the only instant AoE we have? Couple that with the 100 Force cost and the fact that it is targetted, doesn't really make it a good candidate for using on the move or as a quick efficient way to finish off a low-health mob.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Forcewave knocks back and kills weakened mobs.
True. Zero cost and instant. But (a) it requires that you be within 15 meters of your target (and we should be at max 30m range) and (b) it has a 20 second cooldown.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
The only free attack we have is a melee range 3-hit combo which is weak but you can use it if you like.
True. But Saber Strike is a melee ability. You can only use it at a 4 meter range. Good if you happen to run past a mob or if the mob has closed the distance to you for whatever reason. But of limited use for us that live at 30m range.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
If all else really is on CD and you have nothing to do, use the time to reposition yourself, ready for next attack.
That's basically what I do now . Would just be nice to be able to do something while repositioning and waiting for CDs to end.
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.03.2013 , 07:43 AM | #4
So reading Ycoga's reply and his suggestion about Saber Strike, got me thintking.

I came up with the following.

As you know (or should ) when we choose the Sage Advanced Class we get the following "passive" abilities: (Sorcerers get equivalent passives)
- Force Reach: Increases the range of Project, Telekinetic Throw, Mind Snap, Mind Crush and Force Slow by 20 meters. Also increases the duration of Force Lift to 60 seconds.
- Force Studies: Versed in the Force, your maximum Force is increased by 400.
- Jedi Healer: Reduces the cooldown of Revive by 100%.

What if Sages/Sorcerers also got "something" like the following:
Force Projection: Your Saber Strike now projects a flurry of 3 force projectiles at a single target up to a maximum range of 30m that deal x - y weapon damage spread across the 3 force projectiles.

It would basically "upgrade" Saber Strike. The damage (x - y) would be exactly the same as that dealt by Saber Strike, and still be weapon damage, but we would get a "ranged-no-cost-instant-ability" with no cooldown that we could use on the move and against low-health targets as a quick finisher. It would also give us a use for our saber as so often requested on these forums. (The same "name" could even be used for the Sith Sorceror mirror ability as they also have a "Saber Strike".)

What do you guys think?

Gamebreaking? Stupid idea (waving your saber in the air and launching projectiles might not be everyones "cup of tea")? Love it? Hate it?

Share your thoughts.
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
01.03.2013 , 08:39 AM | #5
When I am on the move, I usually:
1) Fire Project. I don't have Project in my basic rotation so I usually have it off cooldown when I need to move.
2) Renew Weaken Mind. I need it up all the time for Turbulence critical proc and for Psychic Projection. If there are more targets and I need to move for a longer time, I renew it on more targets while moving.
3) If Tidal Force procs right before I need to move (from my last Disturbance or from Forcequake I was casting just before the need to reposition appeared) I fire TK Wave.
4) Shield myself. Sometimes it comes in handy. If grouped and we don't have Sage healer, I shield tank or someone who seems like they need shielding - situational.
5) Instacast Selfheal. It is free, it is instacast, If you manage to pull aggro or some raidwide damage hits you, it is great to use while on move.

Usually I don't need to be on the move for longer than two GCD's and pause between moves is usually bigger than 6 seconds, so Project and Weaken Mind renew on main target are pretty much all I do to use my moving time well.

As a TK Sage I don't have any problems with force management. I know that on lower level the problems exist because I had Project in basic rotation and used it pretty much on CD, but really as you grow higher you will find that unless you start vigorously offhealing you will have pretty much infinite resource. Thus it is not a "waste" to use Project on the move and to finish off weakened enemies. Even as lower level I don't remember running out of force even in "long" fights, even while firing all out the fight ended while I still had around 50% force. I just needed to meditate between encounters, which I really do not need in the endgame - the insta cast heal keeps my health topped and the great force regeneration along with low force consumption keeps my force topped.

And secondly, I often use Force Slow as a finisher on those pesky weaks who stay alive with a tiny bit of HP.

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.03.2013 , 08:55 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post
When I am on the move, I usually:
1) Fire Project. I don't have Project in my basic rotation so I usually have it off cooldown when I need to move.
2) Renew Weaken Mind. I need it up all the time for Turbulence critical proc and for Psychic Projection. If there are more targets and I need to move for a longer time, I renew it on more targets while moving.
3) If Tidal Force procs right before I need to move (from my last Disturbance or from Forcequake I was casting just before the need to reposition appeared) I fire TK Wave.
4) Shield myself. Sometimes it comes in handy. If grouped and we don't have Sage healer, I shield tank or someone who seems like they need shielding - situational.
5) Instacast Selfheal. It is free, it is instacast, If you manage to pull aggro or some raidwide damage hits you, it is great to use while on move.

Usually I don't need to be on the move for longer than two GCD's and pause between moves is usually bigger than 6 seconds, so Project and Weaken Mind renew on main target are pretty much all I do to use my moving time well.

As a TK Sage I don't have any problems with force management. I know that on lower level the problems exist because I had Project in basic rotation and used it pretty much on CD, but really as you grow higher you will find that unless you start vigorously offhealing you will have pretty much infinite resource. Thus it is not a "waste" to use Project on the move and to finish off weakened enemies.

And secondly, I often use Force Slow as a finisher on those pesky weaks who stay alive with a tiny bit of HP.
Still low level so Project tends to be on CD for me. Thanks for the heads up that it will be dropping out of my rotation.

Other than that I already do all that you do (with the exception of instant TK Wave; still one level to go before I can pickup Tidal Force ).

Thanks for the Force Slow tip! Totally forgot about it. Still not my ideal, (costs Force and has a cooldown), but it is an instant 30m cast and the Force cost is low. Thanks again!

P.S: What did you think of the "Force Projection" idea?
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
01.03.2013 , 09:26 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroPlus View Post
P.S: What did you think of the "Force Projection" idea?
As a TK Sage I absolutely wouldn't find use for it. I mean, while being in place and casting like there is no tomorrow I do not need any free instacast that deals low damage and while on the move it might get some use but we still have enough stuff to do while moving so I wouldn't use that. Don't know about Balance sages though.

Secondly, Sages don't get any bonus from Willpower to their melee damage. You might have noticed that if you charge in and smash enemies with your basic lightsaber attack, you deal laughable damage. If they'd just upped the range while keeping the attack's stats as they are, you would have attack that deals superlow damage on range. You might think that it is enough as a finisher (and yeah I agree that finishing the weak basterds is a pain sometimes), but there is no real need for it.
If the passive you suggest also changed the attack's type to a force attack instead of weapon attack, then we would have a regular basic attack similar to Trooper's Hammer Shot etc. They could actually give us a new instacast no cost weak 30m attack upon choosing Sage.

But our basic attack is Disturbance, even though it is very different from other classes basic attacks. For the cost of being static (and a tiny force cost), we get more damage and, in the endgame, faster global cooldowns.

Long story short, even though I see your reasoning I wouldn't support your idea, because it is not needed and would actually give us a second basic attack, which would be, well, strange.

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.03.2013 , 09:45 AM | #8
Thanks for the analysis Slivovidze.

Yeah. I see it now. Guess it is a combination of being low level and missing something to do on the move that motivated the idea. I'll probably look back in a few levels time and LOL at the idea too .

Thanks again for the tips. The Force Slow one especially .
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Kariella's Avatar


Kariella
01.04.2013 , 10:19 AM | #9
my suggestion would be to slow down a bit...
for trash its really not an issue and the only time I run low on force is if I do back to back to back packs

but in tougher groups... slow down and take more control of the fight otherwise you sometimes find yourself in a postion where everything is on cd and you got no force...

if a mob is stunned... let them hang out that way... especially in end game solo bosses that spam things that REQUIRE interupts...
make me and offer and i'll think about it...

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
01.04.2013 , 03:41 PM | #10
I'm seer specced, but I still have a dps rotation, and I play to be as mobile as possible.

The abilities that i used are obvioulsy all the instants, or abilities that don't activate the GCD.
Stun, saber strike, interrupt, force potency, cloud mind, weaken mind, project, bubble, self heal, rejuvenate, force wave, & slow

None of these abilities inflict dps that is an efficient use of force, but most of them can be used to limit incoming dps. It's all about how you kite or LOS while using these skills.

Moving while "saging" requires thinking about what you're going to cast next, & moving whenever you have a chance. You can scoot a good distance during each GCD, especially if you use speed. If you set things up right, you can close the gap on a damaged mob & put it down with saber strike. I dont really look at it as "What do I do while moving?" It's more like, "Do I want to move since I'm about to cast X?" ~or~ "Do I need to add in an instant here, just to reposition?"

Stacking slow, weakenmind, the stun from project or the slow from TK Throw can slow/damage a melee mob to the point that by the time it gets in range it will drop with one saber strike.

****BTW - I wouldn't mind having a free cast basic ranged attack like hammer shot on my sage - but I'd hate to give up Saber Strike to get it. ***
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~