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Why does it feel like that Jedi Shadow tanks are squishy in pvp?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why does it feel like that Jedi Shadow tanks are squishy in pvp?

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
01.03.2013 , 08:16 AM | #21
Got to learn to use all those procs and stuff from harness darkenss (whatver the shadow one is called).

I have both a sin and a shadow, my sin is in all tank gear, shadow in all dps gear.

Both are freaking awesome and really fun to play, my sin is often the last man standing and has no problem being out numbered.
You got a self heal and huge damage boosts but it takes practice and an understand of how to set all those up for the max healing and damage outputs.

If you play sin/shadow by just face rolling and button smashing your not going to last very long. Timing is really important.

Just keep at it, maybe take your shadow out to a pve area and practice using your procs. There is definitaly a system with that class
Watch the Clowder of Cather in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7uTcYvoEbU

mrekxxx's Avatar


mrekxxx
01.03.2013 , 08:34 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
Even with full elite war hero gear, it just doesn't add up why I get killed so quickly, so it just me or does the empire have more arsenal at there disposal than we do? The Inquisitors have more stuns than any class, your completely helpless when your stunned to the point of no return, yet you don't see consulars providing that amount of stuns at there disposal, it's almost like our absorb and shields are useless against power/surge/critical attacks because my HP bar drains rather quickly against them.

Shadow tanks could use a boost of something
lol nice troll, look at ultimate record, 1.2 mil dmg + 400k protection,

is it squishy? no, the most op class after marauder

Stealios's Avatar


Stealios
01.03.2013 , 08:49 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
Gotta say, I'm not in DPS gear and it seems like I'm very hard to kill most of the time. There are a lot of games I die 0 times. I run with about 28.7k hp and around 1100 expertise. 30% defense rating 37% shield and 37% shield absorption unbuffed. The two things you want to be most worried about are HP and expertise. I got the highest hp armorings/mods/enhancements/augments possible for every slot. You also want to make sure that your defense is around 30% while doing this.

Well there is your problem.

Defensive stats (shield and absorb) are way too low. Even for pvp.
And with only 1100 expertise you're not doing yourself any favors.

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
01.03.2013 , 08:51 AM | #24
I love my Shadow. I feel squishy in Infil spec but that's about it (don't really play balance). In a 23/1/17 build you're almost unstoppable. Managing the defensive CD's is one of the hardest parts to learn for that class but once you do you really avoid a lot of damage. Especially with Spinning Kick available out of stealth for being able to stop Ravage.

A shield is basically useless in PvP. A lot of the big attacks by pass it anyway (Smash, Scream, Project all yellow damage) plus I may be wrong on this but won't white damage attacks that are crits always hit? So a shield isn't really too helpful.
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Zataos's Avatar


Zataos
01.03.2013 , 09:01 AM | #25
Assassins have force shroud and combat stealth, both need to be considered "defensive" and you obviously have to keep your shield buff up as well. I would argue that Assassins have the "highest ceiling" for a pvp tank class but also the "lowest floor".
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Graziell's Avatar


Graziell
01.03.2013 , 09:26 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Stealios View Post
Well there is your problem.

Defensive stats (shield and absorb) are way too low. Even for pvp.
And with only 1100 expertise you're not doing yourself any favors.
I would like to disagree, most of the damage inflicted on a tank should be via guard, meaning it bypasses your defenses anyway.

Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
A shield is basically useless in PvP. A lot of the big attacks by pass it anyway (Smash, Scream, Project all yellow damage) plus I may be wrong on this but won't white damage attacks that are crits always hit? So a shield isn't really too helpful.
Big white hitters:
Sniper: Ambush, Snipe, Takedown, Followthrough (30-40m abilities!) +Series of Shots (channeled)
Sin: Maul
PT: Railshot
Warrior: Ravage
Beside Snipe nothing can autocrit.

I run a 31/1/9 tankshadow in dps gear when protecting healer (~22k life with endu stim), and do not feel squishy at all.
Always fun to see RESIST pop up after a jugger tried to smash me.

DeepFreese's Avatar


DeepFreese
01.03.2013 , 09:37 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Leafy_Bug View Post
. Our only defensive ability has been broken for months and nobody cares. I got 4k railshot thru resilience today and that my friends has a trolololol label attached to it..
The combustible gas cylinder burn can proc of white damage. It is very possible he was rapid shotting, got the proc for burn after you put up resilience and then rail shotted. The resilience causes you to resist the burn damage, but since it was put on after resilience was popped the dot will be applied you can still use rail shot... rail shot is also white damage so resilience wouldn't affect that.
Creus
Robbs(Sniper) Robs(Assassin) Croozz(Jugg) Harata(Guardian) Se'an(Powertech) and Se-an(Marauder)
The Squirtle Squad[The Harbinger}

Envyyyyyyy's Avatar


Envyyyyyyy
01.03.2013 , 09:43 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Leafy_Bug View Post
I have three sets of gear for my shadow. One full tank for huttball, one unlimited power one for 31 0 10 / 2 31 8 and one with a tad less power and crit for when i go balance spec. When I carry the ball in full expertise/survivor gear adjusted for a bit of defence, there are powertechs on TOFN that kill me in 5 seconds tops, with a 5k railshot through deflection.


To answer the question, Shadow tanks are by far the squishiest tanks in PVP at this point in time. Our only defensive ability has been broken for months and nobody cares. I got 4k railshot thru resilience today and that my friends has a trolololol label attached to it.




Uhmm ... 'get a pocket healer' ... I am sorry but with a pocket healer it will take a very skilled dps to take you down in any class.

Not true at all.... Use your CCs on the pocket healer focus on the tank. I peel them apart constantly it's all about control. Shadow hybrid i get the healer to waste his CC break then lift him. 8sec hes out thtas enough time for me to burn down the tank. A lot of people get tunnel vision in pvp, but if you take a step back and have awareness you change your play style and do more control, might do less dmg overall however you'll have more kills. That way you dont whack on a tank for 2mins while he keeps getting healed lol


As a shadow in pvp i went back and did the numbers. spec into your 2%defense increase and higher sheild. Also if you can afford to get your 2 set PVE tanking bonus with your 2setPVP bonus this will allow you to have 5% higher shield rating while Kinetic ward is up. Absorb won't do toooo much in pvp being that auto crits etc will still get through. Making your other 2 mitigation stats more important.

32-34% defense.
50% shield
50%absorb.
Stack endurance when you can being that you'll be in the DR on mitigation, and stack expertise as well.

<3 you.
Vital (Shadow) Mondavi (Guardian) Midnight (Sage) Lavado (sorcerer) Enviously (Vanguard) Avaya (Operative) Anderson (Sentinel)
Thats No Moon (Founder / GM)

Envyyyyyyy's Avatar


Envyyyyyyy
01.03.2013 , 09:52 AM | #29
I have used both a focus and a shield and i say shield.... When i'm running away to go stop a ball run, stop a cap etc.. if im being autoattacked in the back i see the shield cut that dmg way down.. Yes it wont stop everything, but i believe the survivablity it gives me is better than the extra force power. Honestly if you try both for a few games you'll notice that 1v1s, 2v1s etc are easier with the shield.

23/1/17 is seriously monstrous in PVP. I've won 2v1's against some of the top rated pvp guilds. I have a smash sentinel, vanguard, sage, sorc, and my shadow honestly is the most op of winning the game. Yes my vanguard/Sentienl can do a ton of dmg.... but the control i have with my shadow being able to do dmg, survive, stealth, sleep, sprint... its a wonderful class to play and it takes time to master.

I recommend to eveyrone to roll a shadow/sin

Also just carry around 2 sets of full war hero in your bag, stims, and field respec.
Vital (Shadow) Mondavi (Guardian) Midnight (Sage) Lavado (sorcerer) Enviously (Vanguard) Avaya (Operative) Anderson (Sentinel)
Thats No Moon (Founder / GM)

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
01.03.2013 , 10:02 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Graziell View Post
I would like to disagree, most of the damage inflicted on a tank should be via guard, meaning it bypasses your defenses anyway.



Big white hitters:
Sniper: Ambush, Snipe, Takedown, Followthrough (30-40m abilities!) +Series of Shots (channeled)
Sin: Maul
PT: Railshot
Warrior: Ravage
Beside Snipe nothing can autocrit.

I run a 31/1/9 tankshadow in dps gear when protecting healer (~22k life with endu stim), and do not feel squishy at all.
Always fun to see RESIST pop up after a jugger tried to smash me.
I know about all the big white damage attacks and I know only Snipe has an auto crit built in but will anything the crits anyway still by pass a shield? Gunslingers and Snipers with 30% crit chance form gear plus 5% for their buff and 4% talented in Snipe/Charged Burst, Series of Shots/Speed Shot and Followthrough/Trick Shot at 39% crit chance. Those are all hard hitters on your list and if they are going to by pass a shield ~40% of the time would you be better off with the higher DPS of a focus?
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