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One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

ravenshaelo's Avatar


ravenshaelo
01.02.2013 , 08:39 PM | #131
I actually just came back to SW from WoW. My main is a Sith Inq healer. Queued up for a HM flashpoint, got Directive 7. I haven't had that much fun healing instances since... mid Cata in WoW. It's just too easy in WoW now. No challenge. I had to watch my "mana" on my Inq, manage heals appropriately and watch everyone. We finished the FP with 3 players because a DPS dropped halfway through. No deaths. I'm probably going to let my WoW sub lapse for a bit. I've gotten bored of it.
I should probably find a guild...

Anyway, don't despair for all pugs. Some of us healers know what we're doing and like doing it.

Bhemont's Avatar


Bhemont
01.02.2013 , 08:49 PM | #132
I'd rather wait extra and get a decent tank that tanks more then just one mob, waits for me to heal instead of using his class ability ooc. I've got a tank, and I know the deal, it's not rocket science, it's quite easy actually. Just L2P or expect people to be pissed at you. And tanks that need on everything, how I love these F2Pers ugh...
Proud owner of the CE Imperial Agent since day one
- Red Zone

toyfanatic's Avatar


toyfanatic
01.02.2013 , 08:55 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Kurlann View Post
But my one really negative experience was when I guarded a dps at the start of the FP and the healer sent me the most vile of whispers. Accusing me of buying my toon, not knowing my class and various other curse-filled statements. And of course he promptly put me on ignore. He didn't give me a chance to explain that I guard dps in FPs so they can run around wily-nily and shred non elites with little concern for threat. And that the healer should take little to no damage if I am doing my job right. I was shocked, we had a good laugh about it in group chat and a few minutes later another healer filled in. Still, it was bizzarre how mad this bro got.
Have you read the the vile threads "don't guard the healer"? The point is as the tank its your choice to guard some one. Me, I almost always guard a healer. But that depends on the sittuation, and that is a bit off topic.
Yes as a tank I agree if all is perfect and awesome in the land of raiding the healer should take no damage. But it isn't , people make mistakes and some times the healer gets hit. The point is how well the tank attempted to hold aggro on all mobs, will determine their legacy. I can't fix the dps just soaking up avoidable damage or not using the interupt key. I can tank dumb but I can't fix stupid. There should be some offical rule in the game when it concerns to grouping. Breaking one of these should atleast mean you miss out on loot or get booted.
0 yes there is a rule zero, If you never been in this instance ask for guidance and follow it.
1 The groups survival hinges on all of us working together, lets be a team.
2 No one pulls but the tank! If the target is lept to or shot at before the tank engages- they spend that fight being not healed.
3 No one breaks CC's but the tank. You break it you tank it.
4 Help the healer out, self heal between hard pulls.
5 If the healer is busy healing themselves they can't be healing you. Follow the kill order and burn down the adds.
DPS is skill , Healing is a art and Tanking is strategy
Know the pull beforehand.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
01.02.2013 , 09:42 PM | #134
on guarding... I used to think - guard the healer, but having played for a bit, my rule is now - guard the dps. usually melee one. and I say that as someone who plays almost exclusively healers. they tend to get hit with splash damage a lot and especially on trash, pull aggro, and it really makes it easier for me to heal the group when they are guarded.

that said, I've yet to have an awful experience in group finder. I don't pug much though, but when I did, it was fine. too much skipping of stuff though (which is why I prefer to play with friends, I like all the extra bosses and listening to cut-scenes fully, in pugs the group usually prefers to space bar through quickly and I tend to adopt to majority rather then make them adopt to me)

which is part of the reason why I'm still terrified to take my tanks into lfg. I don't know how to set a quick pace and my pace from experience in other MMO, tends to be too slow for people. I don't know any of the shortcuts (and half the time, I end up failing some of the complicated shortcut jumps group wants to do - yes, they are complicated to me, shut up, I never liked super mario style gameplay) tanking for complete strangers is terrifying to me. and maybe, if I take a plunge, it won't be that bad, but having been burned before and having seen the pace people tend to set in pugs (its borderline punishing to me, as a healer)... yeah...

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.02.2013 , 09:54 PM | #135
As regards guarding, when I finally got my tank to 50 and into end-game raids, it became very simple: Guard the one who is pulling off of you.

The 5% damage reduction can be somewhat useful, but the threat reduction is more important, especially on complex fights. If the ranged dps is sitting at 29.9m from Zorn and rips aggro right before the leap, he's going to get fearful and it f***s up the swap.

Solution: Guard the dps



If the dps never pull off of you, then guard the healer if you want. But a good Carnage Marauder with a clicky relic and adrenal can burst obscene amounts of dps. If you, as a tank, never have to worry about dps pulling off of you, you haven't seen a good dps go to town.

TheBetty's Avatar


TheBetty
01.02.2013 , 11:21 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
As regards guarding, when I finally got my tank to 50 and into end-game raids, it became very simple: Guard the one who is pulling off of you.

The 5% damage reduction can be somewhat useful, but the threat reduction is more important, especially on complex fights. If the ranged dps is sitting at 29.9m from Zorn and rips aggro right before the leap, he's going to get fearful and it f***s up the swap.

Solution: Guard the dps



If the dps never pull off of you, then guard the healer if you want. But a good Carnage Marauder with a clicky relic and adrenal can burst obscene amounts of dps. If you, as a tank, never have to worry about dps pulling off of you, you haven't seen a good dps go to town.

If a Mara with the Ataru Form buff on his bar drops into your random HM guard him straight away haha
If force choking Jawas is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Anosa's Avatar


Anosa
01.03.2013 , 12:01 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Cupelixx View Post
People can be very abusive of tanks. Having played healers, tanks and DPS in my long years as an MMO player, I found that I was a great DPSer, a fantastic healer, but my true calling was tanking. So, I ended up taking a bit of a break from the game. I came back, started working on my tank's gear while leveling alts and such, so I'm well on my way to being in full black hole gear. Long story short, I'm wearing better than Tionese gear on my assassin tank, about half Columi and half Black Hole, and I know my s***.

I queued up last night looking for my quick 5 comms. Group pops for Kaon, everything starts out okay. About the second champion robot pull, I notice my health dropping and staying low. I make it through just fine but didn't get a single heal. Well that's a little strange. We get to the turret event and wipe. Okay, not a big deal, s*** happens. Except, the healer starts whining about how tough it is on hard mode. A DPS instantly jumps in with "it's really not that hard if you know what to do". It really ISN'T that hard, but whatever, let's try it again.

Wipe number two, and I'm thinking about baiing when I see the problem. Instead of dropping Revivification, our sorc healer is just spamming on Force Storm to DPS mobs down while nobody gets healed. Same DPS chips in with "Just drop AOE healing on the turret and keep us up. *Sigh*, alright. One more try. We make it through.

The second warning sign came on the Rakghoul Behemoth boss. It started out fine, removed the first barrel and started kiting down the long stretch to the next barrel. Then something happened I couldn't believe. I was about halfway downt he run when the healer used Extricate on me to pull me back to the start of the turn, where the group was behind the boss. I got knocked down, so between that and the threat drop I lost control of the boss, and was now totally out of position, and the boss had re-shielded. I managed to taunt it back on my way sprinting through and got it back on track. I got virtually no heals during the fight, even with the little damage I was taking while kiting. Still, while I was nearly dead, we still got the boss down. Okay. One more to go and it's an easy one, no problem.

The last straw came when we wiped repeatedly on trash mobs going through the second set of dark rooms. And why? Once again, the healer started spamming Force Storms again instead of healing, dead-centered on ones I had just mind-trapped. I pop cooldowns, aoe taunt, self-heal, medpack and minimize the incoming damage but it's not enough. We still wiped. This happened for a second time before I finally put my hands up and said "I'm sorry but this really shouldn't be this hard." We're getting stuck on this, blah blah blah and gracefully bowed out. I could have initiated a vote to kick, but instead I decided to gracefully remove myself from the situation and find another group. The DPS was little better, and slow anyway.

But it didn't end there. The healer decided to come at me in whispers with something like "**** you, you suck, squishy tank" or some such and ignored me right after that. I had already re-queued and it popped right when that happen. I apologized to the new group, and took the 15 minute debuff just to log over an alt and tell this person off.

I have never been removed from a group or chastised for my tanking ability. And in comes this healer, with a classy guild name all in lower case, spending all of their time DPSing instead of healing, then couldn't let it drop and had to come at me in tells. One time experiencing that is enough for many people to say "f*** the group finder" and go guild-only.

Words of advice to all non-tank puggers. We are the person you wait for the longest in your queue. We don't expect special praise or to exert some special form of 'authority' over the group. We are there to do a singular job: keep you from harm and help the group complete its objective. But I will say this again. It takes us seconds to get a group, and takes you considerably longer. We are thick-skinned, but it doesn't take a lot to make a tank give up on RGF and go guild-only. We don't need you to kiss our feet or stroke our egos. But if you want your queues to be shorter, be nicer to your tanks. A well-played, natural-born tank is a rare and precious resource. Every time you behave in such a manner, your odds of losing one of those resources gives up. That goes for healers as well, I have seen a lot of them get p***ed on lately as well and it needs to stop. But in particular, at least watching the forums and chat on my server lately, there is a rash of tanks reporting getting s*** on by groups/individuals and I just don't get it.
the main reason is because pvp. no one plays a tank, they all go dps because sith warriors/jedi knights with dps specs mow every class down
Meow

Eyesmindassassin's Avatar


Eyesmindassassin
01.03.2013 , 07:28 AM | #138
This isn't even a tank issue, this is a good player or exceptional player issue.

magi_melcior's Avatar


magi_melcior
01.03.2013 , 08:09 AM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Mallorik View Post
The other day i had a hm LI and noticed i was down to 1/4 hp after tanking the first boss and almost died on the next two trash pulls, so i aksed the healer if there was a problem and he said "im not the healer" well the game said he was so we booted him and i had to put him on ignore after about the 5th rage whisper.

But if bioware was even half the company that trion or blizzard was, the group finder would be able to tell what spec you are AND if youre geared enough, what hope does this game have if they cant even accomplish something small like that?
Sounds like your "so called" healer either, forgot to untick the healer option in GF, in which case he's a moron or deliberatly left it ticked to get a group faster, which makes him both a moron and a jerk. Had a similar thing happen in Colicoid Wargames, a Shadow Tank (lvl 44) joined with only 8k HP, was using Force Technique, didn't guard, didn't taunt, kept using Force Cloak to drop agro, didn't have a shield equiped and was in DPS gear, he got vote kicked very fast

Having the GF do a build and gear check could also raise some problems. Firstly the build check, I know a fair number of Guardian Tanks who run a Hybrid build, mixing both the Vigilence tree and the Defense tree, if fact most of these builds have more points in Vigilence than Defence, so there is a risk that they'd be catatgorized as DPS when they are in fact Tanks.
I am also opposed to a manditory gear check of any sort, and short advisory warning that "you may be undergeared for this Instance" would do, but locking people out based on gear over looks 1 important thing, skill can make up the difference!
Case in point, early last year our guild was running EV in Storymode for the first time, we had 6 guild members and a couple of PuG DPS. 1 of our guild (a fresh Commado Healer) was running in Recruit Gear while one of the PuG DPS (a Sentinel) was in full Columi. The Healer was brilliant, despite his lowly gear he kept my Tank and the DPS in my group up with almost no problems at all. The Sentinel on the other hand earned the nickname "Mr Squishy" on the grounds that he died in every boss encounter and half the mob encounters. Based on their gear the Sentinel would be allowed to run LI HM but the Commado wouldn't, but I can tell you right now who I;d prefer to run LI with
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Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.03.2013 , 08:12 AM | #140
My expirience in high level content was pretty positive.
Once or twice I had a bad apple or I got Interceded at as the tank ^^

In lowlevel groupfinder queue were a few of the worst expiriences I had as a tank.
In Foundry I had 3 Heals in a row, that were all DPS specced "because listed as a heal the queue pops more frequently" -.-
And poeple thinking they have to do the tanks job.
I usually put them on igno, let them keep their aggro and let them die.
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