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Jedi Knight Ending.


FINNT's Avatar


FINNT
01.03.2013 , 05:08 AM | #21
The problem is that if we go from presumption that love and emotions effect jedis' differently (comparing to "normal" beings) then all we can do is speculate.

Mental maturity is about wisdom. If you have learned yourself or by others that wallowing in sorrow/vengeance only leads to dark side, wise and good person would do something else.

It is after all the "negative" emotions that lead to dark side. You would need to avoid these and behavioural patterns that lead to these. This of course would demand very rational mind.

I always think Jedi Code as a general rule for those that don't have the wisdom and strength of character to process even their most negative feelings and instincts.
:laser:

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.03.2013 , 05:14 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by FINNT View Post
The problem is that if we go from presumption that love and emotions effect jedis' differently (comparing to "normal" beings) then all we can do is speculate.

Mental maturity is about wisdom. If you have learned yourself or by others that wallowing in sorrow/vengeance only leads to dark side, wise and good person would do something else.

It is after all the "negative" emotions that lead to dark side. You would need to avoid these and behavioural patterns that lead to these. This of course would demand very rational mind.
it doesnt matter what a man learn in his life, it is a desire, emotional state that dictates him to do it. Many are taught to avoid many toxical substances yet they use it. Stopping oneself from sorrow or vengeance is not a matter of wisdom but personality, well brains functionality.

Well no wise person would stay a jedi, only "good" fools.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Pingonaut's Avatar


Pingonaut
01.03.2013 , 05:28 AM | #23
Yeah, pretty crappy that it got changed to Master because of QQers. Would have been "General"

FINNT's Avatar


FINNT
01.03.2013 , 06:10 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
it doesnt matter what a man learn in his life, it is a desire, emotional state that dictates him to do it. Many are taught to avoid many toxical substances yet they use it. Stopping oneself from sorrow or vengeance is not a matter of wisdom but personality, well brains functionality.

Well no wise person would stay a jedi, only "good" fools.
Point of view
:laser:

Quething's Avatar


Quething
01.03.2013 , 07:40 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by FINNT View Post
Yep, but growing as a person means to me that you can use reason instead of instincts and emotions.

If you can't help your loved one(s) of course it will feel very bad, but really mature person can handle and process this without "falling out of character". Maybe they wouldn't want to live anymore but at least they wouldn't go into murdering rampage and betray everything.
It's not just about revenge because a loved one is hurt. It's about the fact that love screws up your priorities. Jedi are renowned for being fair and impartial. It's a huge part of their job; they mediate disputes between warring parties and serve as galactic diplomats because they don't play favorites. If a zabrak and a trandoshan have a dispute and call in a Jedi, they can count on the Jedi treating them exactly like a human and a human having a dispute, and not just siding with the zabrak because the trandoshan has claws and talks funny.

Any attachment is a threat to impartiality. If you have a homeworld that you care more about than any other planet, what happens when both that planet and another planet are in economic trouble and you have to decide which one to open trade with? If you have a ship you've loved and lived in for a decade, what happens when you have to fly that ship into a dangerous asteroid field it won't survive in order to rescue someone who might already be dead?

And if you have someone you love, what happens when that person's life is in danger and so is someone else's and you can only get to one of them in time?

Of course, it's not like Jedi don't form attachments anyway. It's not humanly possible to not. They all attached a lot of importance to the temple on Coruscant, I can't think of any notable Master-Padawan relationship that's any less biased than your typical parent-child, they all hang onto their parents' lightsabers and mourn their friends' deaths at the hands of Sith lords. Romantic love can be more intense than those connections, but that's not a hard and fast rule and even when it's true it's a difference in magnitude, not in kind. So the solution is clearly to train Jedi to be able to overrule their desires and biases with their rational minds, not to try to do the absolute impossible and remove desire and bias altogether.

But then again, that's pretty much what the Jedi do; in the Old Republic era, Jedi like Jolee and the Kira-romancing Knight are permitted relationships by the Council because they've proven themselves capable of that judgement and self-control. Padawans like Moracen and Spanios who are half a step from the Dark Side with the bribery and the manipulation and the selfishness, on the other hand, are highly discouraged.

FINNT's Avatar


FINNT
01.03.2013 , 08:18 AM | #26
I don't know how race (appearance) has anything to do with attachments?

There are like hundreds to thousands of Jedi from time to time. I'm sure that someone else can appointed to settle dispute involving someones home planet if they reason (rational mind) that they can't stay impartial. One can also reason that even maybe saving live is more important than beloved ship.

"Saving only one" is a very precise problem, but if you can save only one (no other outcome, no way) who rational beign would save someone you know nothing about instead of person you know and care for? Should I save someone unknown just because the other one is "forbidden" attachment, makes no sense.

It all comes (again) down to the fact that you must judge every situation as they come and use reason to temper emotions.

As I said. I see Jedi Code as a guideline for the young and immature. I could never be so cold that is expected of the Jedi. The code is made to fail. Not now, not for everyone and not everytime, but with living beigns (not droids) the failure is always there.

Save the Supreme Chancellor or your partner and fellow jedi. Well that would be a puzzle Also very unlikely situation.
:laser:

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DakotaDoc
01.03.2013 , 09:10 AM | #27
Many references to relationships, love, marriage being out of Jedi Code. Yet that is true. But the New Jedi order use Love to strengthen their power much like Sith use Hate. This does not fully start until the time of Luke, but traces of Jedi with allowed relationships exist before then. Example, Revan married Jedi Knight Bastila and a child who became Jedi Knight Tasiele Shan who also married and bore a child that then became Master Satele Shan.

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Warcrarian
01.03.2013 , 12:25 PM | #28
I think is like a point of view and depends on the person (Jedi) maybe a mature Jedi could being in a relationship and not falilling in the dark side. But still that same Jedi can and will kill to protect his family, just thinking in his family and the fate of the galaxy in his hands and he needs to choose one of them? Thats one of the reason the Jedi dont like "love".
I fight because that is what I was made to do and the Empire is the instrument through which I realize my purpose.The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is PERFECT.

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SithKoriandr
01.03.2013 , 12:52 PM | #29
The silly part is that you get LS/DS points for the relationship. One can be a LS Force User and not follow the Jedi code at all.

The Jedi are an organization that has a belief in the force, that not all force users agree with (whether Sith or not), and both the Jedi and Sith have been proven wrong on their beliefs in the force (the Sith more so it would seem, as they try to cover up anything that goes against their ideals).

Emotion does lead to the DS, but it can lead to the LS. The real problem is, those who are attuned to the Force often have very destructive powers at their disposal (the game doesn't show this well though, because of things like player balance).

So, while a Jedi may love, if one wants to be a Master in the organization, one would likely need to follow the organizations rules, or else why would they promote you?

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.03.2013 , 01:01 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
The silly part is that you get LS/DS points for the relationship. One can be a LS Force User and not follow the Jedi code at all.

The Jedi are an organization that has a belief in the force, that not all force users agree with (whether Sith or not), and both the Jedi and Sith have been proven wrong on their beliefs in the force (the Sith more so it would seem, as they try to cover up anything that goes against their ideals).

Emotion does lead to the DS, but it can lead to the LS. The real problem is, those who are attuned to the Force often have very destructive powers at their disposal (the game doesn't show this well though, because of things like player balance).

So, while a Jedi may love, if one wants to be a Master in the organization, one would likely need to follow the organizations rules, or else why would they promote you?
Force users because of their sensitivity must be cautious because emotions affect them in a different way than non sensitive.
( well and about Sith, Sith are much more reasonable than those silly jedi with their stupidity, who even half brained would trust someone who swore to be a servant of some democratic being like Republic. Jedi Code is one of those things that makes its subjects passive [ I wonder how many people died in Clone Wars because Obi Wan didnt kill someone and villains continued their voyages )
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.