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Group finder and partially completed operations

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Group finder and partially completed operations

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.02.2013 , 02:13 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
You can't enter group finder queue if you have conflicting phases.
- Resetting phases has a timeout, which is not shown anywhere but seems to be 10-15 minutes.
Either I am not understanding or something is wrong here. There is no cooldown of switching phases if you are invited to a group. When you invite it shoud be just hit button saying yes you want to change instances to the group leader. The group leader should not be changing phases. No clue what the problem was there.
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
I also strongly suspect the following:
- The person furthest into the operation must be leader of the ops group
- That same person must also enter the instance first
Sorry I would have said more in my previous post, but I thought those were common knowledge. Yes the person that has the lockout needs to be group leader when entering the instance and they need to enter first. After that you can hand off leadership to someone else in the group if you do not want to lead.


Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
The root cause for the hassle was the phase reset timeout. With the amount of trial and error going on, I just couldn't do enough resets before people got bored and left. Curse you Bioware for making this so difficult.
No the root cause is you did not know how to do it and we didn't explain it to you. I just figured if you did not know how to do it, someone in your group could explain it.

Trust me, I am not a leader, but I am a healer. I am also someone that can't stand to see people begging for a healer on the fleet, so I have gone on many raids when the healer quit and most of the time I quickly figure out why the healer quit. So I have had many incomplete operations. My guild loves these runs, so they will get a group together, pass leadership to me and I will enter, once everyone is in I will pass leadership back. No fuss and easy comms. Even done that when TfB first came out where i went in and handed off leadership and then left so that another healer could get the codex from the final boss (since I already had it from the week before).

Very sorry I did not explain it better.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.02.2013 , 03:30 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
Either I am not understanding or something is wrong here. There is no cooldown of switching phases if you are invited to a group. When you invite it shoud be just hit button saying yes you want to change instances to the group leader. The group leader should not be changing phases. No clue what the problem was there.
"Instance" here means the operation area, of which every ops group gets their own private instance. Not an instance of a public zone like the fleet, where you can switch at will (subject to the cooldown of course, which as you said won't trigger if you transfer to the group leader's instance).

Phases are related to progress through the operation. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics, but several times the group finder gave me an error about conflicting phases. Also at the start some others went in before me so I couldn't enter because I was too far into the operation.

Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
No the root cause is you did not know how to do it and we didn't explain it to you. I just figured if you did not know how to do it, someone in your group could explain it.
Yes well, that is true. There were in fact people that knew I should enter first, but this was not communicated well enough so some people entered before me on the first attempt. Without the phase-reset cooldown though, we could've resolved the issue on the spot.

Next time I'll know better.

This whole evening has been one big fail and waste of time for me. After the EV failure I joined a group intent on doing TfB SM and other ops weeklies, but so far it's been three hours, we've gone through countless group members and only had two starts (or maybe three, I don't remember anymore), both of which wiped at the first boss. I'm giving it one last try before I call it quits for the night.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.02.2013 , 04:46 PM | #13
Another easy way around the phase cooldown is to break up the group and then rejoin. I have had to do that a couple times to keep from having to wait around.

However, when dealing with PUGs expect the unexpected and nothing will ever be easy. Even if you know exactly what to do and have done it 100 times that way, someone will argue to do it their way or else. I got told how to heal HM EV the other day, saying I was a terrible healer. Sorry my healer is a little weak and I can't heal people through getting a lava waterfall shower...maybe better if you don't stand with you back to the lavafall. Sure some Sage could heal you through that.

ArkonCh's Avatar


ArkonCh
01.03.2013 , 02:14 AM | #14
Wait wait wait...
Let's see if I get this straight...
I currently have 4 characters, 2 healers, 1 dps and 1 tank...
So in theory, I could do EV to the last boss on my first healer, then switch to the other healer and finish the op, then do KP to the last boss on my first healer and again switch to the other healer at the boss...
And then, and this is the sneaky part, start a raid with my first healer, and once everyone is in switch to my dps or tank and only have to kill the last boss, and once my second healer, dps and tank have all done the last bosses in EV and KP, finish the ops with my first healer and get all the BH comms?
So I only need to do everything up to the last boss once and just do the last bosses 4 times?
Dps is science, tanking is strategy, healing is art.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.03.2013 , 05:02 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ArkonCh View Post
Wait wait wait...
Let's see if I get this straight...
I currently have 4 characters, 2 healers, 1 dps and 1 tank...
So in theory, I could do EV to the last boss on my first healer, then switch to the other healer and finish the op, then do KP to the last boss on my first healer and again switch to the other healer at the boss...
And then, and this is the sneaky part, start a raid with my first healer, and once everyone is in switch to my dps or tank and only have to kill the last boss, and once my second healer, dps and tank have all done the last bosses in EV and KP, finish the ops with my first healer and get all the BH comms?
So I only need to do everything up to the last boss once and just do the last bosses 4 times?
Once you kill the last boss once obviously that also is included in the lockout, meaning you can't just get 4 characters and kill the last boss 4 times.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

ArkonCh's Avatar


ArkonCh
01.03.2013 , 05:53 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Once you kill the last boss once obviously that also is included in the lockout, meaning you can't just get 4 characters and kill the last boss 4 times.
But the first healer, that I used to get to the last boss won't actuallty kill the last boss, I'll jump on my other healer for that the first time, then start another raid and switch to my dps/tanki and then the 4th and final time I will finally finish it on my first healer...
Dps is science, tanking is strategy, healing is art.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.03.2013 , 08:21 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ArkonCh View Post
But the first healer, that I used to get to the last boss won't actuallty kill the last boss, I'll jump on my other healer for that the first time, then start another raid and switch to my dps/tanki and then the 4th and final time I will finally finish it on my first healer...
If you join an in progress instance in order to share the same lockout you need to kill a boss. So just being in that instance doesn't get you the same lockout
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

ArkonCh's Avatar


ArkonCh
01.03.2013 , 08:35 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
If you join an in progress instance in order to share the same lockout you need to kill a boss. So just being in that instance doesn't get you the same lockout
Nothing you have said so far counters what I am saying...
Ok, a more detailed explanation...
4 characters: Healer Nr 1, we'll call him A; Healer Nr 2, well call him B; dps, C and tank, D.
We'll use only EV in this example...
A goes into the raid and does everything up to Soa, then A leaves the raid.
A is therefore locked out of everything except Soa.
B then joins the raid and does Soa, therefore finishing the raid and getting the comms and whatnot.
A, who is locked out of everything but Soa then starts a new raid, which starts right before Soa.
A then leaves and C comes in to finish the raid.
A then starts yet another raid and promptly also leaves it to get replaced by D, D then proceeds to finish the raid.
A then starts a raid for the last time and finishes it himself.
Therefore A did everything up to Soa, B, C and D then do Soa, and then A finishes by doing Soa.
One time the lead up, 4 times the pay off...
Dps is science, tanking is strategy, healing is art.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.03.2013 , 08:48 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ArkonCh View Post
Nothing you have said so far counters what I am saying...
Ok, a more detailed explanation...
4 characters: Healer Nr 1, we'll call him A; Healer Nr 2, well call him B; dps, C and tank, D.
We'll use only EV in this example...
A goes into the raid and does everything up to Soa, then A leaves the raid.
A is therefore locked out of everything except Soa.
B then joins the raid and does Soa, therefore finishing the raid and getting the comms and whatnot.
A, who is locked out of everything but Soa then starts a new raid, which starts right before Soa.
A then leaves and C comes in to finish the raid.
A then starts yet another raid and promptly also leaves it to get replaced by D, D then proceeds to finish the raid.
A then starts a raid for the last time and finishes it himself.
Therefore A did everything up to Soa, B, C and D then do Soa, and then A finishes by doing Soa.
One time the lead up, 4 times the pay off...
Ok but isn't it being handled WoW-style here, meaning if one person in that lockout forms a group and kills the remaining bosses even if you have a 4 boss kill lockout if you get in you will find that all bosses are dead? Because if not then yes this is open to abuse.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.04.2013 , 02:58 PM | #20
I tried it again just now, and it worked! Now that I knew what to do, we were able to enter the instance, kill Soa in maybe 5 minutes, and everyone got comms.

There were some oddities though. After I initially entered the group in the group finder queue, we didn't get the green dot in the button. Subsequently pressing the button would give me both the group finder dialog, the travel dialog, and an error about not being able to enter the group finder queue in chat. The error would repeat as long as I had the dialog open. Hesitation over this lost us two members, after which the green dot was there. I then pressed the "find replacement" button in the group finder window and entered the instance, and shortly afterwards we got the group filled. Fortunately both newcomers were okay with doing Soa only. One person also reported that the speeder at the beginning wouldn't take him anywhere, and I think for someone else the travel button didn't work.

Anyway, I'm happy that I got my comms and am now able to queue for Karagga's Palace without hassle. Thanks to everyone who helped me.