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Bring Back my Electro Dart

 

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.02.2013 , 05:59 AM | #11
You're dismissing dart on snipers too easily, for whatever reason you needed to use it you could do it at 30m, now you have to run up like a moron while they have long range roots, long range instant AOE cc and when you get to 10m you're dam right he will pop entrench because it's glaringly obvious you were trying to get close enough for it.

At 30m there was no way of telling a merc was or was not going to stun you and they were far enough away that they could break off out of range too. Now they have to be well in a killzone to try to stun a sniper.

Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroPlus View Post
Back to the topic of Electro Dart: if the idea is to have an "interrupt", then we have a new ability called Disabling Shot (introduced in the same patch that reduced the range on Electro Dart). It is a standard interrupt that locks out the interrupted ability for 4 seconds and it also has a 30m range.

The "nerf" to Electro Dart/Cryo Grenade was extended to other classes as well. Inquisitors/Consulars had the same happen to Electrocute/Force Stun. I believe the reasoning behind this is that these abilities were originally meant as "escape" abilities to allow you to stop a "melee" character in his tracks and get away from him. However, due to their range they were being used offensively against "everyone" and not just "melee". The "nerf" was to "restore" the original intent of these abilities.
Tell me when you can use Disabling Shot to interrupt a sniper.



The reason they crippled EVERYONEs 30m instant stun is they reckoned it was too damaging for ranged classes.

So they believe melee now gets stunned as much as before because all stuns are now smashmonkey fighting range but ranged gets stunned less because OTHER ranged cant stun them from as far now.

So they were saving us from ourselves they say.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
01.02.2013 , 08:25 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
You're dismissing dart on snipers too easily, for whatever reason you needed to use it you could do it at 30m, now you have to run up like a moron while they have long range roots, long range instant AOE cc and when you get to 10m you're dam right he will pop entrench because it's glaringly obvious you were trying to get close enough for it.

At 30m there was no way of telling a merc was or was not going to stun you and they were far enough away that they could break off out of range too. Now they have to be well in a killzone to try to stun a sniper.

Tell me when you can use Disabling Shot to interrupt a sniper.
Yep. Snipers will be a problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
The reason they crippled EVERYONEs 30m instant stun is they reckoned it was too damaging for ranged classes.

So they believe melee now gets stunned as much as before because all stuns are now smashmonkey fighting range but ranged gets stunned less because OTHER ranged cant stun them from as far now.

So they were saving us from ourselves they say.
Not arguing with you. This is exactly it.

As I said, I think the original intent of these abilities was that they be used on melee. Since we, the players, found other (not intended) uses for the abilities they changed the abilities so that they can only be used as intended (same as they "broke" many hybrid specs by tying certain skills to the relevant tree's form/cell/cylinder)
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
01.02.2013 , 01:14 PM | #13
The only good thing about the nerf to Electro Dart was that is was combined with other stun-tastic changes such as the Sorc stun bubble. As stupid as the Sorc stun bubble is, one can not dispute that it hurts melee more than it hurts us. Sure, half the time it is melee stunning other melee with it. But it still gives us non-responsive targets to shoot at. Which is the only way a Merc dps is going to win a fight. With 1.7 the Sorc stun bubble will be dialed back and combined with other nerfs, any Merc buffing in 1.7 will be negated.

Blyndfayth's Avatar


Blyndfayth
01.02.2013 , 02:29 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroPlus View Post
If you want to take one of the mobs in the group out of commision, why not just use Concussion Missile? It still has the 30m range and will incapacitate the mob for 60s...

Back to the topic of Electro Dart: if the idea is to have an "interrupt", then we have a new ability called Disabling Shot (introduced in the same patch that reduced the range on Electro Dart). It is a standard interrupt that locks out the interrupted ability for 4 seconds and it also has a 30m range.

The "nerf" to Electro Dart/Cryo Grenade was extended to other classes as well. Inquisitors/Consulars had the same happen to Electrocute/Force Stun. I believe the reasoning behind this is that these abilities were originally meant as "escape" abilities to allow you to stop a "melee" character in his tracks and get away from him. However, due to their range they were being used offensively against "everyone" and not just "melee". The "nerf" was to "restore" the original intent of these abilities.
I can see how it would be intended for more of a "melee" opponent so you could escape them, however, cutting it down to 10m doesn't allow you to escape anything. Even if you stunned them at max range (10m) and run like hell away from them, by the time the stun wears off you're still going to be in range of thier charge, pull, etc. so what's the point? Bringing it down that much is what caused a chunk of our 'escapability' issues in the first place.

They should split the difference and at least bring it up to 20m, this would at least allow Merc's enough time to get out of range of an instant charge, pull, etc. once the stun wears off.
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they are going to be when you kill them"

Baarabas's Avatar


Baarabas
01.07.2013 , 07:24 PM | #15
What was the point of this. I actually get stunned more and stay stunned longer now than I ever did prior to the resolve "fix". Let me get this straight:

-Ranged classes could stun from 30m.
-Melee classes can mainly stun from melee range.
-Thus in "theory" ranged classes could stun Ranged (30% population) and Melee (70%) classes (R+M=100% stunning occurring) all the time. Ranged classes can stun 100% of population.
-Melee classes could only stun melee classes (70%).
-Advantage Ranged.

-1.4 "fixed" resolve so that:
Quote:
•Players under the effects of a control ability now build less Resolve for other control abilities that target them. The exact amount of Resolve the player builds is based on the time remaining on the ability currently controlling the player and the relative strength of that ability's effect. If two stuns of similar strength (such as Electrocute and Debilitate) target a single player at the same time, the second ability would generate very little Resolve.
-1.4 also nerf'd Range classes stuns to melee range (except Sniper).
-This in theory was "good" for Range, in that now Range cannot stun Range classes (thus only 70% stunning is occurring in the game).

Reality:
-Ranged stun at 10m now. Melee stun at that range. 100% stunning is still occurring, except it is occurring at melee range. (Disadvantage ranged)
-Nerf never took into account all the speed boosters and gap closers melee has at their disposal to get into stunning range. In addition they are all equiped with 2+ insta-cast stuns, and more break snares.
-Ranged classes still only have one instant stun.
-Resolve fix actually ensures your are stunned more so to return balance the Devs had to find a place to reduce stunning somehow.
-It didnt work very well.
-Ranged classes suffer in return.
"Listen! And understand! He is out there! He cant be bargained with! He cant be reasoned with! He doesn't feel pitty, or remorse, or fear. And absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"
Unknown Mark

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
01.08.2013 , 05:58 PM | #16
Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
01.09.2013 , 03:25 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.
Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. What is the primary mission for a dps character in most wzs? Kill the enemy healer. What is the most common type of enemy healer? Operative healer. Have you ever tried killing an Operative healer in a ranked wz setting without stunning him? You might as well say that your dps subclass is gimped. Oh wait, that is the case.... To kill an enemy Operative healer, you now need to get within 10 meters of him. Which puts you perilously close to the Operative's copious stun/defensive-cc arsenal. Which he can use 3x as often as you can use your offensive stuns. So nerfing the range of Electro Dart did in fact reduce the effectiveness of Merc dps. Which was BW's plan all along.

Bloodcharged's Avatar


Bloodcharged
01.09.2013 , 07:42 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.
Then remove snipers ranged root, it is *********** ******** they get to keep theres when they already had and still have higher survivability then Mercs against melee.

Choffware's Avatar


Choffware
01.09.2013 , 08:28 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.
I don't even know where to start... The nerf to this ability was almost game breaking to two already gimped builds (pvp dps mercs). If you don't pvp or play a healer... we are not talking to you. At least healer mercs have other ways of surviving. Merc pvp dps is broken there are basically 2 philosophies that can be applied to fix it. 1) give us more dps so our lack of utility balances out... 2) just give us better utility. That patch removed two of our gap wideners (rocket punch knock-back and ranged stun) in effect removing utility but not adding anymore dps. 10m cc for a ranged class is the stupidest thing ever imagined (as far as class balance goes) ESPECIALLY when every melee class have much better counters for each of them.
Mantorin 55 Marauder || Choff lvl 55 Merc || Chof lvl 51 Sorc

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
01.09.2013 , 02:43 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. What is the primary mission for a dps character in most wzs? Kill the enemy healer. What is the most common type of enemy healer? Operative healer. Have you ever tried killing an Operative healer in a ranked wz setting without stunning him? You might as well say that your dps subclass is gimped. Oh wait, that is the case.... To kill an enemy Operative healer, you now need to get within 10 meters of him. Which puts you perilously close to the Operative's copious stun/defensive-cc arsenal. Which he can use 3x as often as you can use your offensive stuns. So nerfing the range of Electro Dart did in fact reduce the effectiveness of Merc dps. Which was BW's plan all along.
Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?
Quote: Originally Posted by Choffware View Post
I don't even know where to start... The nerf to this ability was almost game breaking to two already gimped builds (pvp dps mercs). If you don't pvp or play a healer... we are not talking to you. At least healer mercs have other ways of surviving. Merc pvp dps is broken there are basically 2 philosophies that can be applied to fix it. 1) give us more dps so our lack of utility balances out... 2) just give us better utility. That patch removed two of our gap wideners (rocket punch knock-back and ranged stun) in effect removing utility but not adding anymore dps. 10m cc for a ranged class is the stupidest thing ever imagined (as far as class balance goes) ESPECIALLY when every melee class have much better counters for each of them.
Game breaking? Not even remotely in the ballpark. And why even mention Rocket Punch knockback in PvP? One can't play Arsenal and still expect people to believe they are a serious and knowledgeable PvPer. You can be one, but not both (knowledgeable OR serious, as Arsenal)
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS