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Merc Healing Aggro

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
12.26.2012 , 08:12 AM | #1
So, my sorc was my main from launch until about 6 months ago (when i got bored of healing). During flashpoints / raids, I rarely ever got targeted when healing. One of my previous guildmate buddies was a healing merc, and I noticed during raids he would get targeted a lot (complaining on voice).

Last week i decided to pick up my merc and lvl. I am now lvl 49, and after doing lots of flashpoints healing I notice i get targeted..A LOT!. The threat reduction on the merc tree is 10 percent...the sorc and operative get 15 percent. I don't know if the 5 percent makes such a huge difference in theory, but from my experience - it would seem to. Anyone else notice this?
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

Y_bot's Avatar


Y_bot
12.26.2012 , 01:51 PM | #2
Actually, I have. The first flashpoint, I thought it was just a crappy tank, but I attracted aggro from all the dpss too. I don't know why it's like this, but the talent didn't even help. Any suggestions someone?
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Y_bot, Vanguard. Ven Zallow Refugee
The Crossfire Legacy
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Chef-Exogenesis's Avatar


Chef-Exogenesis
12.26.2012 , 02:03 PM | #3
I have the same "problem" in operations with my commando healer.
Sometimes my friends tank run EC and TBF without me and they don't have any trouble to keep aggro but when i run it with them, they just spam their taunt because i keep getting aggro.
Last time we wipe at the final boss of TBF because i stole aggro from tanks and i died immediatly, the other healer wasn't able to keep us alive.
I have a sorcerer too, and i don't feel like i have this problem. This is really annoying...

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
12.26.2012 , 04:31 PM | #4
This is what is happening.

Damage does 1 point of agro per point of damge, tanks get a modifier to this of 1.5 plus some abilities get an additional 15% of that but that depends on the tank.

Healing agro is 1 point of agro per 1 point of healing (Often reduced further by talents in tree).

Healing agro works a little differently then damage agro. Where damage agro is only applied to targets you dirrectly attack, healing aggro applies to all targets you are in combat with divided by the amount of enemies.

For example.

You are in combat with 3 mobs, you pull a heal off before the tank attacks. You've just done a 6000k heal, the agro from that 6k heal now applies 2000k points of agro towards each mob. The tank and or dps needs to apply at least 2001 points of agro to that target to now pull away from you.

What the moral of this story is when a group of mobs are pull and a tank or dps do not engage them you will be targeted everytime. This becomes very annoying for healers when they are grouped up with poor tanks. It requires very little effort on the tanks part to actually keep agro off of you. If you are running a FP and a tank throws a guard on you tell them that isn't going to help, even though your agro will be further reduced you still generate agro from healing and unless agro is applied from a tank or dps the mobs will still come for you.

This is something to watch out for as well in fight when there is a complete agro drop (aka Kephis will he lands from jumping) If you are still healing after an agro drop and the tanks aren't on their game you can often get blasted.

So just know its nothing you've done wrong its all on the tanks.

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
12.26.2012 , 04:39 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by HoboWithAStick View Post
This is what is happening.

Damage does 1 point of agro per point of damge, tanks get a modifier to this of 1.5 plus some abilities get an additional 15% of that but that depends on the tank.

Healing agro is 1 point of agro per 1 point of healing (Often reduced further by talents in tree).

Healing agro works a little differently then damage agro. Where damage agro is only applied to targets you dirrectly attack, healing aggro applies to all targets you are in combat with divided by the amount of enemies.

For example.

You are in combat with 3 mobs, you pull a heal off before the tank attacks. You've just done a 6000k heal, the agro from that 6k heal now applies 2000k points of agro towards each mob. The tank and or dps needs to apply at least 2001 points of agro to that target to now pull away from you.

What the moral of this story is when a group of mobs are pull and a tank or dps do not engage them you will be targeted everytime. This becomes very annoying for healers when they are grouped up with poor tanks. It requires very little effort on the tanks part to actually keep agro off of you. If you are running a FP and a tank throws a guard on you tell them that isn't going to help, even though your agro will be further reduced you still generate agro from healing and unless agro is applied from a tank or dps the mobs will still come for you.

This is something to watch out for as well in fight when there is a complete agro drop (aka Kephis will he lands from jumping) If you are still healing after an agro drop and the tanks aren't on their game you can often get blasted.

So just know its nothing you've done wrong its all on the tanks.
Yeah, but the thing is i rarely have ever had an issue in an ops on my sorc with healing aggro - innervating my pants off over healing and the like. Just seems the merc healers get more healing aggro
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
12.26.2012 , 04:40 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Chef-Exogenesis View Post
I have the same "problem" in operations with my commando healer.
Sometimes my friends tank run EC and TBF without me and they don't have any trouble to keep aggro but when i run it with them, they just spam their taunt because i keep getting aggro.
Last time we wipe at the final boss of TBF because i stole aggro from tanks and i died immediatly, the other healer wasn't able to keep us alive.
I have a sorcerer too, and i don't feel like i have this problem. This is really annoying...
Didn't see this post,

Stealing agro in the 2nd part of TFB is very common issue for healers. This is because healers are doing their full healing numbers and all that agro is going to TFB while tanks have reduced damage which means reduced agro. Healers can crank out multable heals over 5 k while tanks are doing 50% of their damage to the target (due to a buff on the boss) This issue can be negated by having the heals guarded and the tanks using their taunts correctly.

Majority of tanks don't use their taunts correctly. AKA tanks starting their rotation off by taunting. Taunts force the target to have agro on them for 6 sec and give them an additional 30% of the agro from the highest person on the agro table.
So taunting when starting a fight generates no agro.

The correct way to use a taunt is to beat on the boss do a full rotation then use a taunt, this gives you an aditional 30% agro on op of the agro you've already generated. Its also wise to use an area taunt shortly after as well.

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
12.26.2012 , 04:42 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by nosmos View Post
Yeah, but the thing is i rarely have ever had an issue in an ops on my sorc with healing aggro - innervating my pants off over healing and the like. Just seems the merc healers get more healing aggro
Sorcs really aren't nearly as bursty of healers as mercs. Longer casts and smaller heals keep you safe. As well as in your tree you might have a larger reduction on your agro then a merc or possibly the merc isn't even speced into the agro reduction I couldn't tell you.

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
12.27.2012 , 02:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by HoboWithAStick View Post
This is what is happening.

Damage does 1 point of agro per point of damge, tanks get a modifier to this of 1.5 plus some abilities get an additional 15% of that but that depends on the tank.

Healing agro is 1 point of agro per 1 point of healing (Often reduced further by talents in tree).

Healing agro works a little differently then damage agro. Where damage agro is only applied to targets you dirrectly attack, healing aggro applies to all targets you are in combat with divided by the amount of enemies.

For example.

You are in combat with 3 mobs, you pull a heal off before the tank attacks. You've just done a 6000k heal, the agro from that 6k heal now applies 2000k points of agro towards each mob. The tank and or dps needs to apply at least 2001 points of agro to that target to now pull away from you.

What the moral of this story is when a group of mobs are pull and a tank or dps do not engage them you will be targeted everytime. This becomes very annoying for healers when they are grouped up with poor tanks. It requires very little effort on the tanks part to actually keep agro off of you. If you are running a FP and a tank throws a guard on you tell them that isn't going to help, even though your agro will be further reduced you still generate agro from healing and unless agro is applied from a tank or dps the mobs will still come for you.

This is something to watch out for as well in fight when there is a complete agro drop (aka Kephis will he lands from jumping) If you are still healing after an agro drop and the tanks aren't on their game you can often get blasted.

So just know its nothing you've done wrong its all on the tanks.
You make some very good and accurate points here but I wanted highlight a couple of items.

Healing actually generates .5 threat/1 point of healing.
http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-492.html

As someone who tanks 90% of the time and has cleared all content I have to always take umbrage with statements that understate the difficulties that tanks can have. If the healer is pulling off the boss, then yes that is a tank issue. If the healer is getting mobbed by trash/adds, that is a DPS issue. When I use my Assasin tank, holding aggro on multiple targets is hard and a lot of work. When on my Jugg, it is virtually impossible. Too many times the DPS are beating on the boss and leaving the trash/adds to mob the healers. Blaming the tank for not being able to hold aggro on every enemy is absurd.

DPS should generally be attacking targets the Tank is not holding. Too many people fail this point.

BlownSi's Avatar


BlownSi
12.29.2012 , 11:09 AM | #9
Great points made by RandomXChance and HoboWithAStick....

First, dps needs to be smart. A tank's job is to hold the strongest mobs at bay, mainly strong and elite mobs. A good tank will do what he can with normals, but will not be the focus. Good DPS will know to work their way up from the normals to the strongs, and then elites. If groups are attacked this way, the healer will usually not pull any aggro.

Hobo is right on the money with his posts. As soon as we finish the last tent on TFB before getting pulled up for phase two, our tanks switch their guards to the healers.

As far as Merc healing itself.....yes, we are very bursty, especially if you do run with high alacrity as opposed to removing most of it. I always have Energy Shield on a hotkey, and my Chaff Flare is always on CD whether I am running as dps or heals. Just be sure to use the tools at your disposal and you will be fine.