Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.29.2012 , 07:54 AM | #61
I'd like to look at the tactics of both. Both are experienced and proven generals and are very agressive. I see no clear advantage when it comes to strategy EXCEPT that MtU has Fett. With that in mind, I might give a slight tactical advantage to MtU. Also: we need to look at exactly what kind of plans are available to these guys. We need to look at their options. The bulk of Greivous's army is made up of B1 battle droids, which are only good (correct me if I'm wrong) overwhelming the enemy through numbers. MtU's army is made up of experienced war veterans. They can do many things. In this since, MtU has an advantage because his soldier type gives him more options in war. Am I making since? I think this indicates another advantage for MtU. Due to soldier quality he'll have more options and manueverability with his battle plans.

Despite these two points and the recent ones made by StarSquirrel (I think that's his name?) I still feel that Greivous will win. Just look at who he fought during the Clone Wars: an army significantly bigger then MtU's that had much better industry, and had the entire Jedi Order. And Greivous came close to beating them at times. Greivous wins this particular Kaggath due to an advantage in numbers and industry.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.29.2012 , 08:02 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I'd like to look at the tactics of both. Both are experienced and proven generals and are very agressive. I see no clear advantage when it comes to strategy EXCEPT that MtU has Fett. With that in mind, I might give a slight tactical advantage to MtU. Also: we need to look at exactly what kind of plans are available to these guys. We need to look at their options. The bulk of Greivous's army is made up of B1 battle droids, which are only good (correct me if I'm wrong) overwhelming the enemy through numbers. MtU's army is made up of experienced war veterans. They can do many things. In this since, MtU has an advantage because his soldier type gives him more options in war. Am I making since? I think this indicates another advantage for MtU. Due to soldier quality he'll have more options and manueverability with his battle plans.

Despite these two points and the recent ones made by StarSquirrel (I think that's his name?) I still feel that Greivous will win. Just look at who he fought during the Clone Wars: an army significantly bigger then MtU's that had much better industry, and had the entire Jedi Order. And Greivous came close to beating them at times. Greivous wins this particular Kaggath due to an advantage in numbers and industry.
We cannot forget though as mefit pointed out that the Separatists where being aided by Sidious, and of course Dooku. Without Sidious Grievous will find it difficult to execute effective strategy and will suffer from a lack of intellegence on enemy movements. He will also not have effecitvely a sabotuer on the other side. And without Dooku he will have difficulty keeping the Sepratists leaders unified and supporting him, as well as other Sepratists worlds which may abadon a cyborg leader. Most likely as the fight goes on he will be stipped of everything apart from his droids armies and his factories.

However he only really need the droid armies to win, he has a powerful enough force to attack Dxun and perhaps kill Mandalore if he attempts to protect it. Mandalore did after all participate in the Second Battle of Dxun during the Mandalorians Wars - he may not be so lucky to escape alive with Grievous' deadly battle droids rampaging over the moon. This is at least how I see the Kaggath heading. Fight me!

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.29.2012 , 09:10 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
We cannot forget though as mefit pointed out that the Separatists where being aided by Sidious, and of course Dooku. Without Sidious Grievous will find it difficult to execute effective strategy and will suffer from a lack of intellegence on enemy movements. He will also not have effecitvely a sabotuer on the other side. And without Dooku he will have difficulty keeping the Sepratists leaders unified and supporting him, as well as other Sepratists worlds which may abadon a cyborg leader. Most likely as the fight goes on he will be stipped of everything apart from his droids armies and his factories.

However he only really need the droid armies to win, he has a powerful enough force to attack Dxun and perhaps kill Mandalore if he attempts to protect it. Mandalore did after all participate in the Second Battle of Dxun during the Mandalorians Wars - he may not be so lucky to escape alive with Grievous' deadly battle droids rampaging over the moon. This is at least how I see the Kaggath heading. Fight me!
I guess I missed Mefit's point concerning Greivous's lack of Dooku and especially Sidious. This certainly changes things. That's an excellent point. With that in mind (and my previous points) I give a clear tactics advantage to MtU. This battle suddenly seems like it is in the realm of winnable for MtU. With a advantage in troop quality, ship quality, and tactics, MtU is gonna give an excellent fight. I'd love to see him beat Greivous. Although a victory for MtU now seems to be possible, I still imagine that Greivous will win by a bit.

Greivous's greatest advantage (imo) is his industry. What industry does MtU have? To the best of my knowledge he commands a army, not a nation. Armies are great for fighting and all, but in a prolonged war, you need citizens and factories. What citizens does MtU have? I imagine he has some slaves, but not many due to his bombard-worlds tactics. He can recruit soldiers and mercenaries, but they won't be of the same quality as Mandos. Also, I don't see how MtU is gonna create ships quickly enough to make up for lost ships.

So industry and recruitment seems to be a big problem for MtU. I saw someone mention something about Mtu having War Forges though? What are those?

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.29.2012 , 09:49 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I guess I missed Mefit's point concerning Greivous's lack of Dooku and especially Sidious. This certainly changes things. That's an excellent point. With that in mind (and my previous points) I give a clear tactics advantage to MtU. This battle suddenly seems like it is in the realm of winnable for MtU. With a advantage in troop quality, ship quality, and tactics, MtU is gonna give an excellent fight. I'd love to see him beat Greivous. Although a victory for MtU now seems to be possible, I still imagine that Greivous will win by a bit.
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what I see happening in the Kaggath.

On another note though, I would like to point out these,Kandosii-type dreadnaught. I don't know numbers, but I can see these being very helpful in battle for the Mandalorians. Any information on them would be helpful though. I'll try to do more research in support of the Mandalorians as soon as possible.

For Mandalore!

EDIT: Is my link working?
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.29.2012 , 10:56 AM | #65
Few things I'd like to point out .

Its to my Belief that the Mandalorians will not be satisfied with Driod kills.
They seek honor and glory with kills of equal to their own lives.
Driods are not living breathing creatures.

The Mandalorians will work extra hard to get to the Cowards Grievous and Ventress , just to get the filling of Glory they seek .

Explanation: My use of Coward is for those who run instead of standing their Ground .
As far as I can tell , no one in the StarWars Universe has ran from so many fights as Grievous and Ventress in the face of REAL Challenge .

While as I said before , I feel MtU vs Grievous one on one would be a losing fight for MtU. It is likely if well writen it would be 100times better for MtU to win being the odds are stacked against him and Grievous is a Cold Monster .
I feel alot of people feel closer to Grievous being hes in the Movies and Cartoons.........oh yeah and comics . But all we have of MtU is backstory , lore, and Comics . So even in our Reality hes at a disadvantage , being known is far better than not being known !

Edit: The reason I would give this to MtU on the Large Scale is the craving the Mandos will have for the final Battle with Grievous and Ventress . Both would be notches on their belts that would give them great Glory . The Mandalorians would likely be more focused than every to gaining that battle !

The Mandalorians about crippled the Republic once and without the aid of the many Jedi and Jedi Masters who joined the cause of the Republic , the Mandalorians might have one .
This battle only has 2 Lightsaber wielding beingings . Not either of them are Masters of anything , and both only Won fights against the lower end of the Jedi Order . Nothing of Note . While we can go all day about timeline of these fights , we have to take into respect that in order for MtU to have this fight he would have to have equal knowledge of the times and Equally evolved skill to those Mandolarians of those times as well.
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
Chiss
Shadowlands Server

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.29.2012 , 10:58 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I guess I missed Mefit's point concerning Greivous's lack of Dooku and especially Sidious. This certainly changes things. That's an excellent point. With that in mind (and my previous points) I give a clear tactics advantage to MtU. This battle suddenly seems like it is in the realm of winnable for MtU. With a advantage in troop quality, ship quality, and tactics, MtU is gonna give an excellent fight. I'd love to see him beat Greivous. Although a victory for MtU now seems to be possible, I still imagine that Greivous will win by a bit.

Greivous's greatest advantage (imo) is his industry. What industry does MtU have? To the best of my knowledge he commands a army, not a nation. Armies are great for fighting and all, but in a prolonged war, you need citizens and factories. What citizens does MtU have? I imagine he has some slaves, but not many due to his bombard-worlds tactics. He can recruit soldiers and mercenaries, but they won't be of the same quality as Mandos. Also, I don't see how MtU is gonna create ships quickly enough to make up for lost ships.

So industry and recruitment seems to be a big problem for MtU. I saw someone mention something about Mtu having War Forges though? What are those?
Don't get carried away now, MtU by no means has the advantage in ship and troop quality. B1 battle droids are admittedly blaster fodder, but they were designed to be. And Grievous has B2 battle droids, commando droids, droidekas, crab droids, tactician droids, commando droids, hailfire droids and those big scary airships. IMO these, in overwhelming numbers, decimate the Mandalorians on the ground. But MtU can still get the advantage in space and tactically in general. But then again the CIS navy did rival the Republic's in their golden era. And they also had a wealth of tacticians including tactician droids which are actually pretty good. (especially this second generation)

However in terms of industry e.g. planets, civilians, factories. I think that would begin to fall apart without Dooku or Sidious... still, he'd have more industry that Mandalore and could still invade Dxun

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.29.2012 , 11:19 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Few things I'd like to point out .

Its to my Belief that the Mandalorians will not be satisfied with Driod kills.
They seek honor and glory with kills of equal to their own lives.
Driods are not living breathing creatures.

The Mandalorians will work extra hard to get to the Cowards Grievous and Ventress , just to get the filling of Glory they seek .

Explanation: My use of Coward is for those who run instead of standing their Ground .
As far as I can tell , no one in the StarWars Universe has ran from so many fights as Grievous and Ventress in the face of REAL Challenge .
This argument works against Mandalore in every way.

You're right, the Mandalorians would not be satsfied with droid kills. There's no glory in it. Which means they will lack motivation on the battle field and ultimately loose the thrill of battle and wonder: why are we fighting this war again? With battle being all about glory for the Mandalorians, the lack of living beings to kill will only hinder their spirits.

If the Mandalorians know that Grievous and Ventress are cowards, how would killing them bring a Mandalorian glory? Being a coward is a major sign of being weak in Mandalorian culture, and they won't have the motivation you say they will to kill a coward.

BUT, if they do have this motivation, then any battle Grievous and Ventress are not at will seem like a waste of time to Mandalorians, and they will loose the motivation of glory in battle.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.29.2012 , 11:25 AM | #68
All it takes for Ventress to assassinate Mandalore is a simple Force Choke.

This isn't a Hollywood movie, if Ventress could kill him quick like that, she would. No amount of Beskar could save Mandalore from the Force.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.29.2012 , 11:31 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

However in terms of industry e.g. planets, civilians, factories. I think that would begin to fall apart without Dooku or Sidious... still, he'd have more industry that Mandalore and could still invade Dxun
I don't really understand this argument.

Grievous is at the height of his power, and attacking (what looks to be) a much smaller foe. Why would anybody be unhappy? Also, does this mean the Grievous gets the Sepratist War council, such as Nute Gunray? Because that only helps him, not hurts him.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.29.2012 , 11:35 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
All it takes for Ventress to assassinate Mandalore is a simple Force Choke.

This isn't a Hollywood movie, if Ventress could kill him quick like that, she would. No amount of Beskar could save Mandalore from the Force.
Both your post make sense.
There would be no honor or glory in this fight . It is highly likely it would never happen outside of this forums.

I cannot remember a fight Ventress had with none forceusers she ran from either . I am not sure about the force choke on MtU either . Revan could use force choke , but maybe he just was so inlove with the battle .

Maybe next we can put the Separatists Driod Army against the Yuuzhan Vong . Seems only fair .
I know almost every Star Wars fan hates the Vong but they are canon ..............
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
Chiss
Shadowlands Server