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So you're the top Player, can you beat the top Sorc?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So you're the top Player, can you beat the top Sorc?

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.28.2012 , 08:11 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Xertasian View Post
i play a sage on bastion..from my experience i lost fights and i won some solo..alot of people dont understand the concept to sorc /sages..this is one class thats not friendly to people who backpeddles, keyclick and keyturn..espcially against a skill melee player..

i will fight anybody or class alone..lot of fights i do lose its very close..sages/sorcs you must use strategy with the class..we are not like juggs or maras where any idiot can herp derp smash and hit big..this is techiniques and skills the player must find on there own..

lot of sorc/sages wont fight certain classes they will run away..only way you get better at your class is learning how the other classes works in terms of fighting you..to win the fight you have to lose a few times..to sum it up sorcs/sages dont have the burst to win a battle..they do have the tools to win a war it depends on how you play the toon..

lastly since i play a sage i fought many sorcs on bastion server..in terms of skill and play..best sorc atm is Best World..the dude have game with the sorc and i seen him beat melee classes from sents to juggs in 1 vs 1 duels in outlaw den.
Full balance sages are really good at 1v1s.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.28.2012 , 09:42 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Full balance sages are really good at 1v1s.
Yeah but they aren't useful at all when it comes to actual warzones. I can beat almost every class 1v1 in full madness, but I can't kill anyone for the life of me if there is a decent healer or tank around.

Still full madness looses to snipers without LOS, Assassins and Operative dps. Assuming that the aforementioned classes are equally skilled as the sorc.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.28.2012 , 09:52 PM | #23
The thing is yes, utilizing kiting tatics, LOS and knowing when to mez the opponent as full madness can net you a win against most players and classes. The problem lies in that it takes you so long to do this, so it isn't very practical in a warzone. I takes around 45 seconds to beat most classes as a dps sage. You have to spend the time kiting to make your opponent waste his cooldowns so you can burst them yourself. Sadly this lack of burst hurts the SAGE/SORC in warzones too, and there is no good force management mechanic for full madness.

Yes a sage can beat a sniper utilizing LOS in a warzone, but the amount of time you must spend to kill a sniper using this manner is ridiculous. Any class can abuse the weakness of the sniper by using LOS, but that far from means the sniper is bad class nor that the sorcerer class is fine because of LOS.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.28.2012 , 10:50 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
The thing is yes, utilizing kiting tatics, LOS and knowing when to mez the opponent as full madness can net you a win against most players and classes. The problem lies in that it takes you so long to do this, so it isn't very practical in a warzone. I takes around 45 seconds to beat most classes as a dps sage. You have to spend the time kiting to make your opponent waste his cooldowns so you can burst them yourself. Sadly this lack of burst hurts the SAGE/SORC in warzones too, and there is no good force management mechanic for full madness.

Yes a sage can beat a sniper utilizing LOS in a warzone, but the amount of time you must spend to kill a sniper using this manner is ridiculous. Any class can abuse the weakness of the sniper by using LOS, but that far from means the sniper is bad class nor that the sorcerer class is fine because of LOS.
Why dies it take you so much to kill a sniper with full madness? They go down much faster unless they are engineering and have 2 shield probs available. Just make sure youndont waste your death field when he has entrench on, if he is MM he is likely to have siege bunker. Crushing darkness should be used after his shield probe expires.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
12.28.2012 , 11:19 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Boops View Post
I'd like to agree, but if you have 2 smash spec vs a smash /sorc, they just rape the sorc instantly. two 7.5k hits with 4k(non crit) follow up, each = 23k, in less than 2.5 seconds.

Sorcs are nothing more than fun to play. They get raped.
How is this any different from 2 operatives opening up on a marauder or any other class and instantly stunning them / ****** them while they can't do anything? 2 geared dps operatives can do this, easily. Literally, nothing the single player can do vs that much burst. Same could be said for 2 assassins, or an assassin + operative. Hell, a PT as well. PT + smash is huge burst, and between the two, they get 8 seconds of stun at least, that's enough to kill you.

Saying that "2 people rape 1 player is OP" doesn't really mean anything. Furthermore, why didn't your bubble stun both of them, allowing you time for force speed away and apply dots/kite? Why didn't you use overload to knock them back? Why didn't you use one of your stuns? Hell you could knockback them both, whirlwind one while they are rooted (you do have knockback root, right?), and proceed to start kiting the other player while dotting him up/slowing him. This gives you 15 seconds where his charge is down and he literally can't do much of anything to you, while you get free dps on him. Once he catches up, you get to abosrb his damage and bubble stun him AGAIN, and very soon your knockback / root is back up again.

GOOD sorcs know how to do what I described above, and they make playing smash extremely frustrating. If you just stand there and take it like an idiot, then yes, you will get owned. That's kind of the point of a 2v1. What it sounds like to me is that you:
  • have slow reaction time
  • keyboard turn
  • click your abilities
  • are possibly still learning your class

Yep, my rage friend and I own people like that all day long. Charge in, they stand there with apathy wondering what to do, we smash, they die. L2P.
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> POT5
Youtube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/kdbutler2
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Zataos's Avatar


Zataos
12.28.2012 , 11:27 PM | #26
Sorcs and Mercs aren't good 1v1s, we know, it sucks half the time it's great the other.
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(Havaos Jug 50) (Devaos Sorc 50) (Vorhen BH 50) (Venaos Sin 50) (Xaos BH 50) (Zorgen Jug 50) (Zataos Mara 50) (Gwaraos BH 50) (Xenaos Mara 42) (Tavaos Sin 50) (Jenaos Snip 41) (Scaraos Op 27) (Ravaos Jug 31) (Xinaos Sorc 32) (Dreadaos - Jug 22)

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
12.28.2012 , 11:42 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
That's not a problem with sorcs, that's a problem with smashtards.
/agree.

If this is the standard that bioware thinks is balanced how about you make Death From Above instant and lower the cooldown to 15 seconds and then allow me to drop it on top of myself?

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
12.29.2012 , 12:06 AM | #28
If you're playing a good Sorcerer then a melee should never even get close to you. If I can perma-kite on my Balance Shadow a sage should be able to do the same.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.29.2012 , 02:56 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
The thing is yes, utilizing kiting tatics, LOS and knowing when to mez the opponent as full madness can net you a win against most players and classes. The problem lies in that it takes you so long to do this, so it isn't very practical in a warzone. I takes around 45 seconds to beat most classes as a dps sage. You have to spend the time kiting to make your opponent waste his cooldowns so you can burst them yourself. Sadly this lack of burst hurts the SAGE/SORC in warzones too, and there is no good force management mechanic for full madness.

Yes a sage can beat a sniper utilizing LOS in a warzone, but the amount of time you must spend to kill a sniper using this manner is ridiculous. Any class can abuse the weakness of the sniper by using LOS, but that far from means the sniper is bad class nor that the sorcerer class is fine because of LOS.
Ya balance has resource issues if your going full dps, which is why I do hybrid most of the time.

Balance needs some type of way to do burst. Like make FIB use up all your dots for huge damage.

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
12.29.2012 , 04:37 AM | #30
Sorc is not bad 1v1 at all. I experience difficulties in winning against few specs overall. Here is what i think about it:

- merc/mando
well, i guess sorc is one of the most desirable enemies for them (we're not melee at least). although most of mandos i've seen so far were whether quite bad or heals, but i've seen good ones, apparently able to win a duel. Frankly didn't have pure duels with'em.

- pt/vg
worse for hybrid, in my experience they are 1v1able by madness. If there are obstacles to LOS (like side turrets at civil war) it makes duel pretty easy for sorc, in open it's harder, but still pretty fine for madness

- sniper
as said above, if you can't LOS you'll 100% lose, being able to LOS in my experience makes unbelievable win of sniper. Though as was said above it's not helpful in capping objective - takes enough time for backup to arrive.

- mara
rage is easily 1v1 by both hybrid and madness, as well as carnage and annihilation. Carnage is closer to win because of burst phase - if you eat it you will probably lose this duel. So pushing back, stunning these phases is "Must DO".

- jugg
may be vengeance or tank/vengeance hybrid could cause some problems, but for sure not pure tank and rage

- assassin
in my duels it was mostly 40% winning against them in all specs except pure tank assassin with stacked power (0% chance to win against him so far). every other spec is counterable by both hybrid and madness, but sins are all really good against sorcs and i wouldn't bet for winning any of them.

Summary: didn't list operatives and sorcs for few reasons - didn't duel operatives recently at all (even in wzs), and sorc vs sorc is not a subject of the topic.

And of course, though i mentioned that some specs are easily counterable by sorc (like mara rage for example), it doesn't mean sorcs wins 100%, but it's apparently at least 50+% chance to win + there are always exceptions. I won many duels against good maras and sents, but there are few of them horrifying me in wzs as much as i'm not sure if i will be able to win them 1v1 at all - everyone's skills have its limits so as mine do
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
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