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Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints

Dampylle's Avatar


Dampylle
12.27.2012 , 05:10 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
A good thing to have in mind next time a player screams "Fast run only!!!" denying a player a bosskill that could have improved that players gear a bit.
That argument is logically flawed. He mentioned sub 50 armor being the concern. Tionese is given for free post update 1.6 and is level 50 gear of item grade 51. We can logically infer if he said sub 50 that Tionese does not meet that qualifier. So the question in his example becomes why are they not even utilizing a free set of Tier 1 PVE armor in a HM scaled for Tier 2 PVE armor.

If we were to apply Occam's Razor and thus assume the simplest and most obvious answer as probable.... given the current time frame and influx of new players that favors the simple explination of them lacking the Artifact Equipment Authorization as it would prevent them from being able to acquire said free Tier 1 PVE armor set.

However if such is the case those individuals could also not make use of Exotech, Columi, Rakata, Black Hole, Campaign, Hazmat, or Dread Gaurd gear rendering the entire argument that people should be forced to farm on their behalf a moot point.... since they would be unable to make use of any such rewards.

As I previously explained in the current post 1.6 progression there is no logical reason to force bosses whose primary drop is simply Tionese as is the case with most skipped bosses. It is more efficient to work on Columi as a Tier 2 since you are given a free set of Tier 1 and endeavor to begin work on Tier 4 armor via your daily rewards.

The tactics argument has moderate merit but I also recently explained at length why most encounters being skipped (the exception being some of the bonus bosses) do not provide a significant tactical primer. While many of the non-skippable and end run bosses can sufficiently fill that role.

To re-iterate my personal stance though. At the end of the day it is inherently selfish for one group or the other to seek to impose their preference on the opposing faction. Instead one should act with consideration of others and communicate politely. Thus in cases where those are willing they may be persuaded, and you also avoid tension that could say them against your request. But it should be the choice of the group, likely via the majority vote, how they wish to conduct themselves.

It is no more or less selfish for one to insist on all bosses than for one to insist on only a few.... both situations rudely impose a self driven desire upon others possibly against their own personal choice or desire.

In short... we should all be considerate to each other regardless of which side of the debate we fall on and via polite and calm communication attempt in each individual instance to come to an understanding. We may not get what we want every time but it is the most logical and civilized approach,

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.28.2012 , 07:34 AM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
A good thing to have in mind next time a player screams "Fast run only!!!" denying a player a bosskill that could have improved that players gear a bit.

Even Exotech helps out more then tionese

My statement of gamebreaking ripples through to even harder content, if players cant get better gear what are they supposed to wear?
You cannot force that person to stop screaming, you can however, if the rest of the group agrees, kick the person and look for a new member.

And to answer your question, they are supposed to wear even better gear. Exotech is only a minor upgrade in comparison to a Tionese, but a Black Hole piece is a huge leap forward.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Zamppa's Avatar


Zamppa
12.28.2012 , 07:48 AM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Exotech is only a minor upgrade in comparison to a Tionese, but a Black Hole piece is a huge leap forward.
I have to disagree with you, again! Tionese is rated as 128 with gear rating, Columi/Exotech is rated 136 and Rakata is 140. So statistically the increase from Tionese to Columi/Exotech is TWICE as big than the increase from Columi/Exotech to Rakata. Black Hole gear is rated as 146, but it's very "expensive" and only acquirable through comms, one usually gets 1, max. 2 pieces of BH gear in a week. So what comes to the gearing one should get the free Tionese set and start doing HM FPs(all bosses! ) and get Columi and Exotech drops. During those runs one will probably get enough BH comms for 1-2 pieces as well.

Funny thing I went through the other day here by the way! I was doing my daily HM with my mara and Black Talon popped up. We managed to get to the FIRST convo with Lieut. Sylas and 2 rolls through when our healer started to cry "who is not skipping, who is not skipping!?!?" and I answered "I like convos " which made him/her to answer "aha, I will take the 15 minutes punch" and quit the group Well we queued up again and after 3 minutes or so new Columi geared sorc healer popped up. We went through the FP almost without skipping convos and only skipping the bonus boss and we had tons of fun there! The new healer was also very awesome, kept my mara bubbled all the time with the jugg tank we had. It was probably the first time in a month the healer kept my mara bubbled in a HM FP! After finishing we chatted some 10 minutes how fun we had had as we did not skip and enjoyed the story, now I have a quite skilled healer on my friend list who does not want to skip everything! So thanks for the operative healer for quitting the group
"What can you say - I'm a talented individual"
- Revan to Bastila on Taris

Koordynator's Avatar


Koordynator
12.28.2012 , 08:26 AM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Zamppa View Post
The new healer was also very awesome, kept my mara bubbled all the time with the jugg tank we had. It was probably the first time in a month the healer kept my mara bubbled in a HM FP!
You know that keeping anyone bubbled at HM FP is useless and pointless (what can hit you for 20k at HM FP?) and sometimes dangerous and stupid (when you need fast emergency heal but you still got bubble CD on you) :|, right?

Zamppa's Avatar


Zamppa
12.28.2012 , 11:05 AM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by Koordynator View Post
You know that keeping anyone bubbled at HM FP is useless and pointless (what can hit you for 20k at HM FP?) and sometimes dangerous and stupid (when you need fast emergency heal but you still got bubble CD on you) :|, right?
It's quite useful when cleaning a group of normal thrash and silvers as there are multiple targets to kill. In bossfights it can be dangerous but I still think it's quite useful when there are adds around.
"What can you say - I'm a talented individual"
- Revan to Bastila on Taris

Prettyevilish's Avatar


Prettyevilish
12.28.2012 , 05:31 PM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
Most people arent so "vehemently set on skipping" most of us just do not want it changed so we have to do every single boss. I have stated a couple times if someone asks when I am pugging to do the bosses I usually have no objection. I just do not want to Have to Do them every time when I run with my guild. And yes they are all like minded.
Don't say 'most people' when you can actually only speak for yourself. There have been many posts in this thread that are people who are ABSOLUTELY set on skipping no matter what, and that was even before the suggestion that bosses be unskippable was made. Don't speak for the masses - especially when you apparently haven't read what the masses had to say.

(Also, nothing in my post (or previous posts) supported or derided that suggestion, so not sure why you would even direct such an assumption at me. But you know what they say when you assume.)

Also, you apparently completely failed to read anything past that first 8 words, because I clearly outlined a proposition that would keep you from ever having to interact with those that want full runs - and would keep them from ever having to interact with you.

Prettyevilish's Avatar


Prettyevilish
12.28.2012 , 05:34 PM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
SM EV is geared for people in Tioense. Thats why it drops Coluni gear. Thats what people were doing when the ops went live that and with the lvl 50 daily mods. First time I ran thru it on my healer I hadnt done a Single HM FP and that is when the game first went live. With a pick up group at that.
I think you missed that person's point, which was not that 'I have to do that HM FP in order to gear up' but was "I play this video game for fun, and I find these HM FPs fun".

Not everyone is in the game for the gear grind. However, if you are in the HM FP already, and you know an optional boss drops an upgrade for you why would you not want to do it? Or if you know that optional boss has a fun mechanic (I finally got to do the Directive 7 bonus boss and was completely thrilled with that mechanic, as was the rest of my team who had never gotten to do him before - that was not sarcasm, we thought it was a blast), why would you want to skip it just because it takes 2 minutes longer?

Dampylle's Avatar


Dampylle
12.28.2012 , 06:45 PM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by Prettyevilish View Post
I think you missed that person's point, which was not that 'I have to do that HM FP in order to gear up' but was "I play this video game for fun, and I find these HM FPs fun".

Not everyone is in the game for the gear grind. However, if you are in the HM FP already, and you know an optional boss drops an upgrade for you why would you not want to do it? Or if you know that optional boss has a fun mechanic (I finally got to do the Directive 7 bonus boss and was completely thrilled with that mechanic, as was the rest of my team who had never gotten to do him before - that was not sarcasm, we thought it was a blast), why would you want to skip it just because it takes 2 minutes longer?
Logically speaking... one would have such a reaction for the same reason another has the reverse.

Personal preference

But how is it fair or respectful for any party to dictate to another how they should play the game? Just because some find watching the Cutscenes every time fun or because some find doing full clears fun and others do not does not mean that either side should get to dictate how the other gets to play the game.

I mentioned in an earlier post that a simple and logical solution would simply be to add a box one could check off for full clears that would filter group finder results. It would allow both variations to remain viable and avoid drama from those with conflicting views.

Anecdotal evidence on either side of the fence does not prove an absolute. If person A was shot down when they ask that does not invalidate the experience of Person B who was not. It just means there is a certain luck of the draw involved.

Twolightsabers's Avatar


Twolightsabers
12.28.2012 , 09:39 PM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by Zamppa View Post
Lets just hope BW will bring the magical "I WIN"-button into the game soon so you busy players can push it to get to the endboss right from the beginning and maybe even beat it by pushing that button so you don't need to "waste your precious time" with the game and can get the daily comms as easily as possible.

Maybe BW will even create own Group Finder section for you busy people so you can go there and let us others to enjoy and play the game as it was planned to be played.
Once again you make posts that attack anyone who doesn't share your point of view. Who are you to say how the game was meant to be played? Play it your style and have fun with it. But don't come on here and sh it all over those who want to do things as quickly as possible. That's just as selfish on your part as is the behavior you're complaining about.

Twolightsabers's Avatar


Twolightsabers
12.28.2012 , 09:47 PM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
It is not as simple as that, if it were things would be fine. What this 26 pages, 253 posts and 14,487 views thread discuss is the phenomenon of bosskilling in SWTOR. RikHar, I suggest you read through some of it before you dismiss it as whining and crying.

The only way to make things better is to discuss in a constructive way and provide feedback to Bioware. Time will tell if they care, even if they do not change their current FPs they might use this feedback for future creations.
You stated in your thread that BW should look into making fps that cannot be completed until all bosses are killed and that the trend (of skipping bosses) is "simply wrong." The very title of the thread is "Gamebreaking behaviour..." You can't now backtrack and say it's not a complaint thread against people who skip bosses. It is very much that.

I can see your point of view, even though I adamantly disagree with it. What you and your fellow non-skippers seem to want however is a game world where all fps are done as you want them done. Do you not see how that's trying to impose your will on all players? If you don't want to skip, go with a group who doesn't. But don't ask that BW make sweeping changes to the entire fp system because you want to see/do it all. That's just as unfair to those who want to skip as you're claiming skipping is to non-skippers.