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Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Bounty Hunter > Mercenary
Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.11.2012 , 05:49 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
good argumentation against lethality user claiming they are more mobile. There is one catch though: ambush is important and it's 1.5 sec, with laze target you get only one crit snipe, after that 1 min you are depending on your crit chance. No crit snipe, no reactive shot, 2.5 sec ambush. So it's not that guaranteed. And you still need to cast 1,5 sec.

Now another real difference: the mercs use tech attacks for tracer and the rest. They have less troubles than us when having to deal with deflection, saberstrike and any sort of ranged defense. So it's not that they don't have advamtages.
That's why I use Series of Shots instead of Ambush if Snipe doesn't proc Reactive shot. In total i have dead on 40% crit chance (34% + agent buff + max comp affection crit boost), so between 4 or 5 SoS ticks, 1 hit will proc Reactive Shot. So while I might not be able to do a 1,5sec Ambush every 6 seconds, I definitely can do one every 12 because 1 tick of SoS always procs Reactive Shot.

The problem is that Arsenal Mercs are too reliant on Tracer missile and are too susceptible to interrupts. They really need to have some for of interrupt protection because all of the attacks you'll see them using most of the time (Tracer Missile, Unload, Power Shot, Death from Above, Sweeping Blasters, Pulse Cannon (sorry idk the name of the Imp mirror skill) are either channeled or have a cast time.

If you consider the amount of attacks that melee classes can use to stop you from getting off a skill: Force Kick, Force Push, Awe, Force Stasis, Shoot First, Distraction, Low Slash, Spinning Kick, Force Pull, Harpoon, Flash Grenade, Dirty Kick, Cryo Grenade, Seismic Grenade (and the list goes on forever) or skills they can use to avoid getting hit (Force Camo, Force Cloak, Disappearing Act etc.), you'll see that an Arsenal merc is not just disadvantaged against melee but it is literally shut down to the point, where it cannot do anything.

All other ranged classes have some form of interrupt protection (like Snipe or Ambush) or have instant damaging abilities (like Force in the Balance or Sever Force) and even the much accursed Lightning Sorcs have Polarity Shift to protect against interrupts! Hell even Ravage is uninterruptible for Maras and Juggs.

So why you can't give Mercs some form of interrupt protection is beyond me. Especially that we had to *********** beg BW for months to get a combat rez! And even more months to get an interrupt! Mercs was literally the only DPS AC that couldn't interrupt anything! It was the only healer AC that couldn't rez anyone.

I don't get it. Why does BW have it out so much for this poor AC? It's like they're intentionally trying to make this class fail.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
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Nightkin's Avatar


Nightkin
12.11.2012 , 05:59 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post

I don't get it. Why does BW have it out so much for this poor AC? It's like they're intentionally trying to make this class fail.
I dont get it either, they really need to open their eyes and not just go after pve balance. On Tomb Of Freedon Nadd we have tons of people doing pvp, a huge amount. The only people dumb enough to even try pvp at 50 as mercs are so pitifully few and pretty much none of them manage to do it with any success.

Great skill does NOT make this a viable class. I can just see it infront of me; the devs gather for a round of internal testing. Doing some pvp in the latest warzone, its been roughly a month since any of them had time to try it out due to the cartel market and F2P so they are all pretty rusty.

In this testing ground, do you think someone playing a 3 button tracer spammer will do above average against a bunch of melee who dont have much situational awareness? Cause i do, i really think they sit their and go "Oh look at mister XXX going all crazy mando on the rest of us, clearly peoples whining is not justified..the class is just too hard to master."

If any yellow poster claims im wrong then i want to know WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH HAVE YOU LEFT THIS CLASS TO THE VULTURES FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS?! Its beyond useless!

RageRageQQRage i am a very very bitter player at this point.
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Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.17.2012 , 08:48 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Nightkin View Post
In this testing ground, do you think someone playing a 3 button tracer spammer will do above average against a bunch of melee who dont have much situational awareness? Cause i do, i really think they sit their and go "Oh look at mister XXX going all crazy mando on the rest of us, clearly peoples whining is not justified..the class is just too hard to master."
Your point is a major factor in why Merc dps is considered OP by the devs. Not so much the issue of what happens when devs play devs in their free time. But just generally, a low skill Merc dps will own a low skill Melee dps. The low skill melee dps can't keep his target in front of him and in range. He might lose 50% or more of his GCDs simply to target acquisition. The low skill Merc dps has a significantly easier time here. And thus he will post better numbers in warzones. But once you get to skilled players, that melee inefficiency is dramatically reduced. Instead you get a lot of lost GCDs to the Merc dps through interrupts and lost dps through better defensive abilities available to the melee.

Basically, the Merc dps subclass benefits from a very easy learning curve and is thus penalized by the devs with an artificially low ceiling on performance. It's bad design.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.19.2012 , 01:44 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Your point is a major factor in why Merc dps is considered OP by the devs. Not so much the issue of what happens when devs play devs in their free time. But just generally, a low skill Merc dps will own a low skill Melee dps. The low skill melee dps can't keep his target in front of him and in range. He might lose 50% or more of his GCDs simply to target acquisition. The low skill Merc dps has a significantly easier time here. And thus he will post better numbers in warzones. But once you get to skilled players, that melee inefficiency is dramatically reduced. Instead you get a lot of lost GCDs to the Merc dps through interrupts and lost dps through better defensive abilities available to the melee.

Basically, the Merc dps subclass benefits from a very easy learning curve and is thus penalized by the devs with an artificially low ceiling on performance. It's bad design.
exactly. which is why balance changes should never be made in terms of the lowest common denominator. bioware has made this mistake multiple times now

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.22.2012 , 04:53 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Your point is a major factor in why Merc dps is considered OP by the devs. Not so much the issue of what happens when devs play devs in their free time. But just generally, a low skill Merc dps will own a low skill Melee dps. The low skill melee dps can't keep his target in front of him and in range. He might lose 50% or more of his GCDs simply to target acquisition. The low skill Merc dps has a significantly easier time here. And thus he will post better numbers in warzones. But once you get to skilled players, that melee inefficiency is dramatically reduced. Instead you get a lot of lost GCDs to the Merc dps through interrupts and lost dps through better defensive abilities available to the melee.

Basically, the Merc dps subclass benefits from a very easy learning curve and is thus penalized by the devs with an artificially low ceiling on performance. It's bad design.
This I agree with 100%. As soon as melee learn to deal with us it's game over. High skill on merc/commando doesn't matter much because skill needs tools and merc/commando doesn't have any. Meanwhile other classes HAVE tools, and so their learning curve is steeper, but once they master all those tools? Like I said, game over.

Level 50 commando is balanced to take down level 11 melee. Totally ridiculous.
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Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.27.2012 , 01:15 PM | #86
Your suggestions are all pretty good.

I think missile blast should proc rail shot instead of power shot, and cost only 16 heat.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
12.27.2012 , 01:22 PM | #87
One thing that could be added is to have a skill similar to Pulse Generator and attach it to Curtain of Fire.

At 5 stacks of Charged Barrel or when CoF procs, whichever seems best, Full Auto can not be interrupted.

Personally, I would like the 5 stacks.

Bouncy_Hunter's Avatar


Bouncy_Hunter
12.28.2012 , 01:56 AM | #88
I'm a fan of the "run and gun" idea, and also the punch knockback/root and the...wait Let's say I agree with all of the Arsenal changes.

koffinushko's Avatar


koffinushko
12.28.2012 , 02:53 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Your suggestions are all pretty good.

I think missile blast should proc rail shot instead of power shot, and cost only 16 heat.
This!!! I think that's the balance we need. I don't undrestand why get bounty hunter this rocket... There are no synergies with that ... ( I know in arsenal tree -> more dmg from rocket... but I don't see any diference ) . Reduced heat cost from 25 -> 16 (or 20 it doesn't matter but 25 is too much ) and give it chance to gain heat signature in arsenal tree or chance on refresh railshot in Pyro tree. Look it has weak dmg in comparison with tracer. I think could help to this class a lot , from it's turret and "Here I am come kill me" reputation ... I hope some devs will read this topic.
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.28.2012 , 08:50 PM | #90
my suggestion for Missile Blast/Explosive Round was to give it a on-demand slow. the high heat cost means it cant be spammed effectively, and the low damage makes it a good candidate for a secondary effect.

obviously i think the slow should only be for Merc/Mando. PT/VG already have enough utility.

making Missile Blast/Explosive Round the proc/debuff applier for either spec would be changing the basic mechanics too far imo. part of the trade-off of a ranged class is having to stop and cast. my Run and Gun idea is the solution for when we *need* to move and shoot, but when we arent being directly attacked by melee opponents, stopping and casting usually is not a big deal. balancing the weaknesses and strengths is key; right now Merc/Mando has no strengths and all weaknesses for the most part.