Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

An Actual "Difference" Between Empire and Republic Classes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
An Actual "Difference" Between Empire and Republic Classes

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
12.28.2012 , 01:07 PM | #1
There is ONE thing I've noticed that isn't quite right. And that's this:

Burning Blade - Jedi Guardian
Draining Scream - Sith Juggernaut

What's the difference you ask? Well, one is a burn and the other a bleed. Powertechs and Vanguards have an ability that increases their damage against burning targets. That is an actual real difference between the two sides, as a matter of synergy between classes.

Mind. Blown. Right?

Quote: Originally Posted by jizerai
I've made some preliminary tests on the Training Dummies with a friend, and from what I can see, his bleeds do not increase the damage output from Rain of Fire.

When applying a burn effect from another player:
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 37912
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 36845
  • Mean: 37378.5

When applying a burn effect from myself:
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 37574
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 37471
  • Mean: 37522.5

When applying a bleed effect from another player (Draining Scream):
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 34342
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 33587
  • Mean: 33964.5

Without either burn or bleed effect:
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 33307
  • 36 Rapid Shots: 34628
  • Mean: 33967.5

Remember, this is a relatively small sample and may actually be incorrect - but it appears that burning effects from others do work, while bleed effects do not. Also, I have not checked that the Jedi Guardian version actually is a burn effect - but it states that it is, and should work the same way.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.28.2012 , 01:52 PM | #2
The reasons why the classes are "mirrors" of each other is for balance. If the factions had different abilities, different, it would be an absolute nightmare to balance them (it is already, apparently). If you've tracked the changes since launch, a lot of them have been tweeks based on players complaining they weren't close enough, and that one ended up being slightly faster or more powerful (i.e. the old Jedi Consular Project) Same reason why WoW continuously moved away from having faction-only abilities and classes and racial abilities, and just started homogenizing them all.

This is the problem with a game sharing PVP and PVE dynamics, they always fight with each other.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
12.28.2012 , 01:58 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
The reasons why the classes are "mirrors" of each other is for balance. If the factions had different abilities, different, it would be an absolute nightmare to balance them (it is already, apparently). If you've tracked the changes since launch, a lot of them have been tweeks based on players complaining they weren't close enough, and that one ended up being slightly faster or more powerful (i.e. the old Jedi Consular Project) Same reason why WoW continuously moved away from having faction-only abilities and classes and racial abilities, and just started homogenizing them all.

This is the problem with a game sharing PVP and PVE dynamics, they always fight with each other.
^
This guy missed it. I did not. I'm kinda a lil upset(i Main a Powertech) and shocked no one has ever pointed it out.

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
12.28.2012 , 02:13 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
^
This guy missed it. I did not. I'm kinda a lil upset(i Main a Powertech) and shocked no one has ever pointed it out.
I saw it at launch. I just thought that they would've fixed it by now. :P Even think I made a ticket about it.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.28.2012 , 04:24 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by jizerai View Post
There is ONE thing I've noticed that isn't quite right. And that's this:

Burning Blade - Jedi Guardian
Draining Blade - Sith Juggernaut

What's the difference you ask? Well, one is a burn and the other a bleed. Powertechs and Vanguards have an ability that increases their damage against burning targets. That is an actual real difference between the two sides, as a matter of synergy between classes.

Mind. Blown. Right?
Pretty sure there are plenty of other burn effects on the target (likely from the Vanguard/PT himself) to render this discrepancy insignificant. Hey, BW still have Blade Storm go off slower than Force Scream.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
12.28.2012 , 04:34 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Pretty sure there are plenty of other burn effects on the target (likely from the Vanguard/PT himself) to render this discrepancy insignificant. Hey, BW still have Blade Storm go off slower than Force Scream.
That may very well be the case. But remember that this means that, lets say after a respawn, the chances of a burn effect being present on your target are increased (when compared to the Empire side) when you get back, meaning you may do increased damage to begin with.

I'm not saying this is in any way significant in most matches. But it will build up over time. I'm just informing the community that there is a discrepancy between the two classes in an actual way - however small that discrepancy may be. There may be other small differences as well between other classes, but this is the only one I've found so far.

It's most likely just an oversight by the developers.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.28.2012 , 05:08 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by jizerai View Post
It's most likely just an oversight by the developers.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that, from a mechanical standpoint, bleeding (or any form of internal damage) is mechanically identical to burning (or any form of elemental damage). I recall someone doing some analysis nearly a year ago wherein they found that pretty much anything that increased or was affected by elemental damage had the exact same effect upon internal damage and vice versa. "Burning" and "bleeding" are descriptive terms that mean anyone taking internal or elemental DoT damage, regardless of what damage type it is; you could replace all instances of "burning" with "bleeding" or vice versa and it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
12.28.2012 , 05:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure that, from a mechanical standpoint, bleeding (or any form of internal damage) is mechanically identical to burning (or any form of elemental damage). I recall someone doing some analysis nearly a year ago wherein they found that pretty much anything that increased or was affected by elemental damage had the exact same effect upon internal damage and vice versa. "Burning" and "bleeding" are descriptive terms that mean anyone taking internal or elemental DoT damage, regardless of what damage type it is; you could replace all instances of "burning" with "bleeding" or vice versa and it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.
If that is the case, then my case is definitely moot. It's the first thing I've heard about it though. I guess I'll have to do some testing myself with a friend.

Edit: The problem with what you're saying is that I know Elemental and Internal have different crit chances. Doesn't have to have anything to do with it. But it makes me wonder. Anyway, I'll do some testing when I can.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.28.2012 , 05:32 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by jizerai View Post
Edit: The problem with what you're saying is that I know Elemental and Internal have different crit chances.
The *proc relics* do, but that's based upon the assignment of one being a Tech attack and the other being a Force attack according to the relic itself. Damage type is independent of attack type, so it's not even a consideration.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
12.28.2012 , 05:46 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The *proc relics* do, but that's based upon the assignment of one being a Tech attack and the other being a Force attack according to the relic itself. Damage type is independent of attack type, so it's not even a consideration.
I assume that you mean that if the attack itself was a Force attack, then it will crit based on Force Crit, and if it's a Tech attack it will crit based on Tech Crit? And not that it's actually independent, as that would mean they are based on different crit chances to begin with regardless of your attack type?

I may be wrong here. But my point was more that they've made distinctions between the different types of attacks, so why wouldn't they also make distinctions between bleed, burn and poison as they've done between Force, Tech and Weapon?
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.