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Vader vs Revan


mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.27.2012 , 11:02 PM | #391
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Depends on what you mean by "greater". Accomplishments-wise: Revan. He fought in two wars and challenged the Sith Emperor himself.

Power-wise: I don't want to get into it...

Trying to mellow out the topic over here...

Edit: And dying in an unspectacular way is not indicative of the power said person holds. Look at Sidious.
Look at Sidious?
He was killed by Vader and later by Luke EU GOD Skywalker. Spectacular ends either or .
Sidious with all his abilities and power , could not see or defend himself from being tossed down a shaft to his doom.
Just a point to throw out there that just because you have the ability to see the future , does not mean you can always see it !

I am not saying Plo Koon is not worthy of being called a Great Jedi , I am just point out that if we went by your rules and people like you Plo Koon suddenly does not look so "GREAT" .
I for one will tell you a death by something that low does not mean he was less , but people have stated because Revan died at the Foundry to 4 PCs that all become Great Characters , all 4 were Great at that point as well , that somehow Revan was weak !

Lets look at these Clone Troopers.
Anyone remember EP4-6? There updated Versions could not hit a target right in front of them , going by the ever G-Canon Movies ! But older versions , Clone Troopers from teh Clone Wars took out Plo Koon with ease .

So if you say , Revan vs so and so and hes always going to lose , well I say .........."He could have been Plo Koon and been taken out by a Average Clone Trooper "

This is all by using your thinking and it does not work as well as you think . I respect Plo Koon and think hes a cool character , but by your logic and debat , hes not that Great. Seemingly being blinded I guess kept him from defending himself with all his Great Powers and Skills against a No Force Connection Troopers whos lives usually were not that long.
Its safe to say , Revan killed many troopers Sith and Republic who could probably Pew Pew with the best of them and defended himself and others from said troopers. With from what you would state less powers and skills than Plo Koon .
So I would say "Well Revan must have been better with what he had then than Plo Koon and all his POWERFUL GREAT Powers and Skills" .
^ See how this all works out ?

Edit: I been trying to stay out these debats but I can see they needed a little Salt from me.
Darth Mefit
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.28.2012 , 08:44 AM | #392
Quote: Originally Posted by DreksOrden View Post
How about we think of the fact that vader was a glorified whiny force using cyborg who was defeated by 1 sith lord (who I say was less powerful than vitiate (another time another thread)) and revan is a ****** who survived being fired at by an entire barage of lasers, a planetary extinction event (save the rakghouls), a gigantic mega bomb on malachor V, survived for 3 hundred years while actually influencing vitiate into thinking temporary peace was in his best interest, and was only killed after 2 sith lords, a cipher agent, and the grand champion of the great hunt tracked him down and may not have even killed him (wheres the corpse Bioware?) after facing lightning, meteores, and a mastery of saber combat. ok i give vader credit for being a saber master too but still it took much more to kill revan than vader who died essentially from circuit overload and suffocation.

Revan>Vader
You clearly didn't look at the scans I put up on pages 34/38.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.28.2012 , 10:35 AM | #393
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
*Snip*
You're really going to use Order 66 as an accurate judge of Plo Koon's abilities? Your "logic" is flawed for a few reasons.

1. Plo Koon was in a STARFIGHTER. What did you expect him to do?
2. He trusted his Clone escort to watch his back. He never expected them to betray him.
3. Sidious had stacked the deck so high against him (and the rest of the Jedi) to the point that there was no chance that he could get out of there.

Even the mighty Revan would have been killed had he been in Plo Koon's position.

If you are going to seriously use Order 66, make sure you have your facts right.

This should help you:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533833
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.28.2012 , 01:05 PM | #394
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You're really going to use Order 66 as an accurate judge of Plo Koon's abilities? Your "logic" is flawed for a few reasons.

1. Plo Koon was in a STARFIGHTER. What did you expect him to do?
I do not know ..........use his ADVANCED SABER skill you go on and on about !
2. He trusted his Clone escort to watch his back. He never expected them to betray him.
So did Obi-Wan , Yoda , and the many other Jedi who did not die to Order 66 . They must been just greater huh ?
3. Sidious had stacked the deck so high against him (and the rest of the Jedi) to the point that there was no chance that he could get out of there.
But other Jedi did!

Even the mighty Revan would have been killed had he been in Plo Koon's position.
So because Plo Koon died by a Average Clone Trooper , You ASSUME Revan would too ? Maybe Revan would have been like Obi-Wan or the many other Jedi . Because not all of them died to Order 66.

If you are going to seriously use Order 66, make sure you have your facts right.
Yes because you know all the facts .
This should help you:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533833
Plo Koon died to a Average Clone Trooper , Revan "Might" have died two 4 Above Average even Great Characters .

You see we have to put something else into this.

Revan like Vader, Luke , Bane , Exar Kun , Meetra , Kyle , Cade , Jaina , Anakin , is a MAIN CHARACTER not just a Character add that builds a Story .

Obi-Wan , less powerful and possibly less skilled than Plo-Koon survived Order 66 because he was Wiser and Probably much more Smarter ! If Anything Revan would have been that .

While in the start I respected you threads I have come to the conclusion that anything wroten by you is now Biased . You use Flawed Logic to attack a Character because of Lack of imformation on his skills and powers and use the knowing of someone elses to try to prove your point.

You never been in the Army , probably never taken up selfdefense class, or played chess . All of those teach you that not knowing someones skills but knowing the achieved wins shows that they are good at what they do . You would have us wash that all away because the lack of imformation of his skills and abilities . Revan won Battles , killed Jedi Masters and Sith Lords , and has lost to someone far more powerful than Plo Koon . I think its safe to say , Revan is not a Push over and has skills and abilities that even not so much know would be worthy of your GREAT Plo Koon to walk into a Fight ready to get it brought to him !

I do not think Revan would beat Vader but I think he would bring the fight to him and Vader would know he fought someone worthy !
Darth Mefit
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.28.2012 , 01:15 PM | #395
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Plo Koon died to a Average Clone Trooper , Revan "Might" have died two 4 Above Average even Great Characters .

You see we have to put something else into this.

Revan like Vader, Luke , Bane , Exar Kun , Meetra , Kyle , Cade , Jaina , Anakin , is a MAIN CHARACTER not just a Character add that builds a Story .

Obi-Wan , less powerful and possibly less skilled than Plo-Koon survived Order 66 because he was Wiser and Probably much more Smarter ! If Anything Revan would have been that .
[/COLOR]
Let me get this straight. You expect Plo Koon to leap out of his starfighter and attack his own clone troops? Right when that first shot was fire from the ARC-170's, Plo Koon was done. There was no way for him to get out. He was in an even worse position than Stass Allie.

The attack on Obi-Wan failed miserably. If you watch ROTS again, you will see the laser blast from the AT-TE strike the cliffside, which knocked Obi-Wan off and into the pits. Yoda survived due to his masterful precognitive abilities and the fact that he could feel the simultaneous deaths of his fellow Jedi across the galaxy. The other survivors, I'm not too sure about. At any rate, Plo Koon was in a bad position in which he could not do anything.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.28.2012 , 01:19 PM | #396
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Let me get this straight. You expect Plo Koon to leap out of his starfighter and attack his own clone troops? Right when that first shot was fire from the ARC-170's, Plo Koon was done. There was no way for him to get out. He was in an even worse position than Stass Allie.
Maybe Plo Koon just was not a great Pilot then ?
The attack on Obi-Wan failed miserably. If you watch ROTS again, you will see the laser blast from the AT-TE strike the cliffside, which knocked Obi-Wan off and into the pits. Yoda survived due to his masterful precognitive abilities and the fact that he could feel the simultaneous deaths of his fellow Jedi across the galaxy. The other survivors, I'm not too sure about. At any rate, Plo Koon was in a bad position in which he could not do anything.

Excuses , my point is not eveyr Jedi with Skills and Abilities measures up . Plo Koon comes from More PEACEFUL times , while Revan is battle Harded and is wise to know in his prime that betrayal can happen (Taught to him by his Best Friend Malek )!

Different times .
Darth Mefit
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.28.2012 , 01:23 PM | #397
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post

Excuses , my point is not eveyr Jedi with Skills and Abilities measures up . Plo Koon comes from More PEACEFUL times , while Revan is battle Harded and is wise to know in his prime that betrayal can happen (Taught to him by his Best Friend Malek )!

Different times .
Actually Plo Koon was the third best pilot in the Order.

Glad you brought that betrayal up. Revan was almost killed by Malak. If Bastila hadn't saved him, Revan would have died. So what does that say? Nothing. Unless Revan knew it was coming, then it says alot. Revan knew Malak would betray him again, but he didn't expect it at that time.

Plo Koon is in a similar boat. He didn't see it coming.

Excuses eh? So the facts are just excuses. /sigh

I'm done here.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.28.2012 , 01:30 PM | #398
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Actually Plo Koon was the third best pilot in the Order.

Glad you brought that betrayal up. Revan was almost killed by Malak. If Bastila hadn't saved him, Revan would have died. So what does that say? Nothing. Unless Revan knew it was coming, then it says alot. Revan knew Malak would betray him again, but he didn't expect it at that time.

Plo Koon is in a similar boat. He didn't see it coming.

Excuses eh? So the facts are just excuses. /sigh

I'm done here.
Not sure you should have added that 1st bit, cause now hes gonna ask. "Well if hes the 3rd best pilot in the Order, then how come he got shot down?"

See! I beat him to the punch!
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.28.2012 , 01:31 PM | #399
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Not sure you should have added that 1st bit, cause now hes gonna ask. "Well if hes the 3rd best pilot in the Order, then how come he got shot down?"

See! I beat him to the punch!
Probably, but I tire of arguing with him.

I posted the Order 66 thread I made, but I doubt he even read it.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.28.2012 , 01:56 PM | #400
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Probably, but I tire of arguing with him.

I posted the Order 66 thread I made, but I doubt he even read it.
I did but at this point I am going to discard anything you write as it is wroten by a Biased Hand .

Revan is in my Top 10 favorite StarWars Characters and you belittle his character with extreme Bias ! Why should I respect anything you write when you Protect Plo Koon and put down Revan ?

Revan won Wars, Plo Koon lost the only War he seen ! Revan Lead Generals , Plo Koon was a General .

Take it how you will but as long as you show Biased when it suits you , I will never respect your Debat .

I am not arguing Revan will lose to Vader , I am arguing the point you are saying that he would get Steam Rolled.
Plo Koon would lose to Vader too !
Darth Mefit
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Chiss
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