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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
12.28.2012 , 12:32 PM | #622
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
some good ideas, but a bit too complex for what is needed, from my point of view.

when i look at my Assault Spec VG vs. my Pyro Merc the main differences are simply: uninterruptable, mobile, burst damage. also, the ability to proc HiB without taking special precautions or getting interrupted.

all 61's Merc/PT vs. 61/58/58 modded VG, Merc is 100-200 DPS lower on training dummy. that is ideal situation, not moving, no interrupts, no kiting, etc.

in PvP, that can easily be significantly less, and will be for a merc, not nearly as much on VG. (no need to cast, CONSTANT movement)

easiest fixes to Merc are the simplest.

Merc/PT- remove cast on Powershot. still "weapons" damage, meaning tanks mitigate, plus uses non-tech accuracy (in no way OP). add a defensive CD, or improve current shield (i did like the physics immunity on shield).

Merc/Ars- mirror snipers. uniterruptable casting, improved defense (if no jump immunity).

instead of rewriting the game, nerfing classes, etc., take the successful classes, see what makes them successful, and adjust the others apporpriately.

no need to reinvent the wheel. how these changes can be made? just change the abilities themselves, or adjust thru AC choices.

i've since stripped all my mods from my Merc and sent to my VG. i'm done. it's almost maddening that my VG (who has 11 fewer 61 mods than my BH) is by far superior to my Merc in every way, minus healing.

my patience has been tested and defeated.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

VarrusTheEthical's Avatar


VarrusTheEthical
12.29.2012 , 01:11 PM | #623
Well, I'll be very disappointed if 1.7 pops on the PTS and there are no improvements made to Commandos/Mercs.
The Starshield Legacy

Volk- Commando, Dahl- Jedi Guardian, Palantine- Sith Juggernaut.

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
12.29.2012 , 01:21 PM | #624
Quote: Originally Posted by VarrusTheEthical View Post
Well, I'll be very disappointed if 1.7 pops on the PTS and there are no improvements made to Commandos/Mercs.
i will be too!

all the time, effort, and HK parts :P, only to be forced into early retirement (BH pun).

no reason to play my Merc when my VG can do it better. PvE or PvP.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.29.2012 , 01:43 PM | #625
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post

some good ideas, but a bit too complex for what is needed, from my point of view.

when i look at my Assault Spec VG vs. my Pyro Merc the main differences are simply: uninterruptable, mobile, burst damage. also, the ability to proc HiB without taking special precautions or getting interrupted.

all 61's Merc/PT vs. 61/58/58 modded VG, Merc is 100-200 DPS lower on training dummy. that is ideal situation, not moving, no interrupts, no kiting, etc.

in PvP, that can easily be significantly less, and will be for a merc, not nearly as much on VG. (no need to cast, CONSTANT movement)

easiest fixes to Merc are the simplest.

Merc/PT- remove cast on Powershot. still "weapons" damage, meaning tanks mitigate, plus uses non-tech accuracy (in no way OP). add a defensive CD, or improve current shield (i did like the physics immunity on shield).

Merc/Ars- mirror snipers. uniterruptable casting, improved defense (if no jump immunity).

instead of rewriting the game, nerfing classes, etc., take the successful classes, see what makes them successful, and adjust the others apporpriately.

no need to reinvent the wheel. how these changes can be made? just change the abilities themselves, or adjust thru AC choices.

i've since stripped all my mods from my Merc and sent to my VG. i'm done. it's almost maddening that my VG (who has 11 fewer 61 mods than my BH) is by far superior to my Merc in every way, minus healing.

my patience has been tested and defeated.
all of these changes would actually be incredibly simple for a professional game developer. they are, with the exception of Run and Gun, modifications to values in the code.

instant cast Power Shot makes Pyrotech a god.

as far as Arsenal, if i wanted to play a Sniper i would have rolled one to start

the line i bolded doesnt really apply to anything ive said anywhere. nerfing is not the answer, ive said that over and over. it is very easy to see why "the successful" classes are successful. the changes i suggest for Merc are to bring it up to into "the successful" group

none of my suggestions "reinvent the wheel". Run and Gun is the only new effect i suggest, and it is a melee-range only. ffs, even it its given an internal range limiter i would still take an ability like that. say it only lets you use casted abilities instantly within 10m. the entire point of Run and Gun is to allow you to fight back against melee.

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
12.31.2012 , 08:17 PM | #626
The merc doesn't need any new abilities. If you recall, your first, and most worthwhile, proposal entailed simple reduction in cast times to zero for both power shot and tracer missile. Now that same idea would make Pyrotech a god? That's a drastic change of opinion.

This run and gun idea is not going to do it. You propose giving the merc a single combat ability that has use in only one combat situation against a single opponent. And as you have said, PVP is rarely a 1 vs. 1 situation. Run and gun is far too limited to provide the class with any overall benefit.
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I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

Aaoogaa's Avatar


Aaoogaa
12.31.2012 , 08:35 PM | #627
I for one wouldn't want a bandaid fix like run and gun. I would want serious fundamental class changes that let us front load our burst while on the move and follow it up with steady dps instead of steady dps with back loaded burst. Currently every commando spec line is a pale comparison to other ranged classes. 1.7 better see some class changes to improve where we are weak: mobility, and damage output while under melee attack, and it better come before the so called expansion (lol to call it an expansion).
-I would rather pay for a great game than play a poor game for free.
-Viable and worthwhile are not the same when it comes to class design.
55 Commando - 50 Gunslinger - 50 Guardian
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Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
01.01.2013 , 01:18 AM | #628
Quote: Originally Posted by VarrusTheEthical View Post
Well, I'll be very disappointed if 1.7 pops on the PTS and there are no improvements made to Commandos/Mercs.
Prepare to be disappointed. Oh, I don't doubt there will be some buff. But there will be nerfs to Merc dps too. Meanwhile classes that are already extremely valuable to a wz team like stealth dps, will get big buffs. Mark my word on this.

PerinnAybara's Avatar


PerinnAybara
01.02.2013 , 10:02 AM | #629
"Instant cast Power Shot makes Pyrotech a god."

Are you aware marauders can do nice double attack weapon damage on a 1 second gcd?

Instant cast means any alacrity is worthless. It's still weapon damage and it still isn't guaranteed to proc combustible gas cylinder either. Even free casting, we can't put out the same sort of damage other classes do. This change actually lowers theoretical damage output, even if it raises actual. This in no shape or form would be op.

A 30% snare is nothing compared to gap closers plus stronger snares.
Character: Mathrim Cauthon, 50 Mercenary on Prophecy of the Five

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.02.2013 , 04:44 PM | #630
Bump

Also we've discussed ad nauseum how making Grav Round/Charged Burst would break the class in the opposite direction, while still not giving us the utility we need. Also it would lead to a slight DPS decrease in PVE which, to me, is completely unacceptable. Run and Gun is a much better compromise.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

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