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Decisions have no consequences?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Decisions have no consequences?

darklordpotter's Avatar


darklordpotter
12.28.2012 , 06:12 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Bhemont View Post
I don't like it when people post bs without any knowledge or have done any research before hand.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84244

It's just pure trolling.
Um I've played Imperial Agent I know of what I speak......

Oh hey that link you posted? It's from beta those endings do not exist anymore. This is in fact discussed in the thread.

Caelrie's Avatar


Caelrie
12.28.2012 , 06:46 AM | #62
There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what.

A_nonymous's Avatar


A_nonymous
12.28.2012 , 06:48 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
The real difficulty I think in implementing stat buffs for companions would be what happens if you're a tank and your DPS and/or healer companions hate you and only your tank companion likes you? It might inadvertently cause certain ACs to be preferable if you want to go LS/DS and thus force people to either 1) make choices they don't want to so they can play the AC they want or 2) make the choices they want but not play the AC they want.
You could work around those buffs with companion gifts though. You lose -1 every time your companion dislikes your decision as it is. Some of the really bad decisions involving killing hundreds of people you may lose -100 or something. You can off set this with enough gifts. So a tank may be stuck bribing his healer companion.
Gunwalker Legacy FTW.

AHierophant's Avatar


AHierophant
12.28.2012 , 11:37 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
I believe this happened with The Elder Scrolls Morrowind which is why quest related characters are unkillable. Even in a single player game people have difficulty dealing with consequences these days.

The real difficulty I think in implementing stat buffs for companions would be what happens if you're a tank and your DPS and/or healer companions hate you and only your tank companion likes you? It might inadvertently cause certain ACs to be preferable if you want to go LS/DS and thus force people to either 1) make choices they don't want to so they can play the AC they want or 2) make the choices they want but not play the AC they want.

I already find the MMO style somewhat immersion breaking since you can lift a siege on a bunker but 5-10 minutes later the same mob will all respawn in a fight to the death for the next guy doing the same quest. Now overall I like the quests and that the game is story driven so I can overlook stuff like that but until they find a way to actually change the game world environment to reflect your actions it'd be pretty hard to truly make your choices have consequences outside of a handful of cutscenes you see once.
Yes, Morrowind has, even to today, one of the harshest in-game consequences. It's easy to inadvertently cut off major quests or even the main quest; for example, if you join the Mages Guild and make grandmaster and take the quest to kill the Telvanni councilors but you hadn't been name Hortator yet (and are not House Telvanni yourself) you can't finish the game.

People wouldn't stand for major consequences, despite what a minority claims, because it would more heavily punish 'bad guys' just by the nature of your actions. Killing people is irreversible in the context of your story, so the more you kill the greater chance you have of losing important information. This would mean Imperial spree murderers would constantly be losing access to 'content' and would be howling.
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AHierophant's Avatar


AHierophant
12.28.2012 , 11:48 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Caelrie View Post
There are no actions possible in real life that render you permanently "evil" or "good". Why should they exist in this game? Redemption and corruption remain possible, no matter what.
Really? Ask Charles Manson.

Humans have a saying "Don't burn bridges." It's allegory meant to teach us that it is not a good idea to permanently create a situation where it is impossible to revert the change; i.e. quitting your job by punching your boss in the face and smashing his personal vehicle. The 'choice' to forgive you and hire you back is no longer yours, it is now your boss', and since the AI in-game hasn't the capacity to be merciful, they'll always and forever hate you if you burnt them and you have no way of convincing them otherwise. Futhermore, objective observers from outside the situation will judge you based upon your actions, as well. Could you imagine someone from the Jedi on Tython wanting you in the Order if you've been rampaging from Coruscant on?
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
12.28.2012 , 12:13 PM | #66
I agree with the OP.

These days I don't listen to the story (I've seen it enough) and just space bar through watch how much affection I get if its a good amount I contune if not ecs out and re-run making different choices or with a different companion. If the choices I made had any real effect (outside of many 2 per class story) I'd never do this. I'd make the choices I wanted to make and if my companion didn't like it they could go jump. But as it stands killing millions, letting people die etc etc means less to me than some dark or light points (till I have one of each maxed) or bonus companion affection cause its cheaper than buying some gifts.

Yes its an MMO and this makes consequences harder those 10 rats will be back. But there are plenty of places where there can be some effect in the class story or instaced areas of the world story that choices can have an effect. Far more than they do currently, nearly every chapter or world arc ends with a big fight, this should be avoidable if you make certain choices through the game.

Spoiler


But even this is too little given the choice and the conclusion of the choice is all done in one go. An example of where it would have been better

Spoiler


Equally often when you let someone live, kill them, fight someone else to save them it always ends up the same way. They die or they disappear never to be seen ever again. Many of these can be counted some even where if you save them two seconds later they will get shot. So with luck BW will take note and we will see some return of old friends and enemies. Though I wonder how many choices we have made will have been saved to make re-appearances, they need to take a look at the DA3 team who have promiesed not to do what they did in DA2. And while there see how important it is for players to carry over what they did in previous games.

Caelrie's Avatar


Caelrie
12.28.2012 , 12:20 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by AHierophant View Post
Really? Ask Charles Manson.
Charles Manson never tried to redeem himself. That was a seriously weak retort.

SithInitiate's Avatar


SithInitiate
12.28.2012 , 12:29 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Bhemont View Post
That's a minor consequence compared to lets say KotOR 2 where almost every companion could be swayed to either alignment. Not to mention be trained in the force. But she is hardly the only example anyway, just a poor choice of argument.
not to mention.. any consequences one might occur during the 1-50 campaign (there are a couple per each class) is rendered mute once the player reaches 50.
McSidious: Gotta go with uno pistola for myself. Remember that Han Solo saved Lando, killed Boba Fett and escaped the sarlaac with only one pistol... and he was BLIND. Give a smuggler two pistols and eyesight and I'm fairly certain they would solo the Death Star while hitting on your sister and balancing the federal budget.. CE VIP

Jinxblog's Avatar


Jinxblog
12.28.2012 , 12:47 PM | #69
I had the luxury to play 2 of the most engaging and dramatic class story lines with a friend who made very different, crucial choices along the way. In both the Jedi Knight and Imperial Agent, I did see some divergent conversations, choices, consequences, and even a unique quest.

Light Side Jedi Knight vs Dark Side Jedi Knight

Spoiler



Light Side Agent vs Dark Side Agent

Spoiler
No flames are necessary, you are already roasting in the fires of your own stupidity.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.28.2012 , 01:24 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by darklordpotter View Post
Um I've played Imperial Agent I know of what I speak......

Oh hey that link you posted? It's from beta those endings do not exist anymore. This is in fact discussed in the thread.
Wrong. The only one in that list that was removed was

Spoiler


All the others are still there and I believe they're all viewable on youtube. You didn't read the thread well enough, I guess. I've played an agent to 50 three times.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant