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One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One reason there is a tank shortage in group finder
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Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
12.27.2012 , 02:09 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by itsmymillertime View Post
Sorry, OP, you did not handle it correctly. When the healer does not heal, call them out or kick them. Maybe they do not understand the rules of the game, but better to find it out than wiping and wasting your time.
Disagree. The healer WAS called out, and we got through the turret fight, so I thought it had clicked. The Rakghoul Behemoth went all wrong, but I couldn't manage explaining why you don't Extricate the tank in the middle of trying to recover that mess, and while the heals sucked we still got the boss down in 1 try. DPS was slow on that fight but I assumed it was because the healer made that mistake and they didn't have enough good DPS time. I assumed the healer had also just made a mistake another. That was when the DPS starting giving up having to be on the healer's back, and after the 2nd boss fight they just stopped caring. That turning point was sudden, and kicking the healer would have done no good. The rest of the group had given up, finding a new one was the better option.

Unless someone is clearly and obviously griefing, causing trouble or doesn't know what to do and refuses to learn, I always give the benefit of the doubt before initiating a vote kick. The part that p***** me off last night is it didn't stop when I bowed out. Maybe it's time to be less lax about my policy.
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BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
12.27.2012 , 02:10 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Krsnik View Post
I don't wanna sound like an ******e here, (ok, maybe a bit), but I agree with the OP. And tbh, I've realized one thing. This started AFTER the game went free to play.
No it didn't. I gave up on groups in part because there was no shortage of, say, sentinels wearing smuggler gear, rolling "Need" on consular gear, and ignoring adds on the sages and scoundrels (not to pick on sentinels - I've seen similar with other classes, but, well, hey, sentinels are easy to pick on). And that was well before F2P.

GalacticKegger's Avatar


GalacticKegger
12.27.2012 , 02:14 PM | #33
I typically whisper the healer before we set off to gauge their potential. If they are confident I'll reinforce that and let 'em know I'm ok with them not healing players who won't cool their jets. If the healer lacks confidence I will let them know my tanking preferences & tendencies right off and pay extra attention to their well being. That's where I always start, and that's with a full pug.

I usually queue with my own healer, and we normally already have a feel for each other and how each will react to certain scenarioes and fight mechanics. Our guild uses Vent which works wonders for tank/heals communication. At that point it becomes a question of whether or not dps is an asset or a liability.

I'm always willing to be patient and help out a player who is actually trying. Conversely disruptive players merit kick consideration. I really do try and keep it that simple.
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Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
12.27.2012 , 02:15 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I would think the Sorc would realize he was put in as healer incorrectly - especially since he was actually doing a significant amount of healing, I would have at least thought to call out the other supposed healer for not healing, and noticed that I had the group finder healer icon on me.
not necessarily

Last week we pugged a 2nd healer for EV HM and got this sage
At the Big B I kept telling her to drop Sacrafice when we switched islands and she would single taget heal
After fight (we won anyways as EV HM not that hard really) we found out shes a hybred that went half way up heal tree only.

People can que intentionally as healer but not have the proper heals available.

Its like those morons that que as tank and then insist they are better tanks by being in DPS stances (Im not joking...seen it multiple times in PUGs)
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Aelther's Avatar


Aelther
12.27.2012 , 02:16 PM | #35
Personally I really hate how NO ONE EVER interrupts Mercenaries in Kaon Well my guildies do, but I'm talking about pugs. Sure if a mercenary grapples me, I use my anti-stun ability to free myself and I always interrupt mercs when they capture someone else, but If I get captured a second time and the group is low geared it's a very possible wipe. So I just helplessly sit there, watching as trash slaughters all of them, because they would rather die than free their tank.... Even if I tell them countless times to interrupt mercs...

Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
12.27.2012 , 02:17 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
That just means he put a point in Corruption. He may have been more specc'ed for DPS than for heals.

Does anyone know if this bug has been fixed yet? If not, this may be what happened to the OP.
Actually, Revivification is the top healing talent in the Corruption tree, so there's no way he was specced for more DPS instead of healing. As for the bug with people getting queued for the wrong roles, I actually haven't seen that one yet.
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Socialist's Avatar


Socialist
12.27.2012 , 02:19 PM | #37
When I play my Tank, people feel I'm responsible for everything.


DPS don't coordinate attacks, healers more often than not can't properly heal... PUGs are a pain.


Once, in a moment of pure folly, I queued for HM Lost Island with my Healer (if the healer knows the place, stuff can't go awry I thought) and came across something fantastic: The Hotshot Tank.

The guy comes in, places himself as Uber Admiral Awesome leading the group, blabbler about his uber Endurance, can't tank the droid boss for his life and blame the healer.
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SharpG's Avatar


SharpG
12.27.2012 , 02:20 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
Well it sounds like you got one of those idiots that ques up as a healer but is really a dps
We on Rep side see it often as well (well I dont as all my 50s healers, but I hear about it constantly from guildies in GF groups).

BUT I been noticeing some really bad tanks out there as well

As I said, I have 4 50 healers
*From most powerful/geared to least powerful/geared*
Sage
Commando
Scoundrel
Merc

I run my GF HMs daily for awhile now but only recently started doing them for Merc

So I get into GF and pop, Battle of Ilum, appearently im replaceing their last healer...not a good sign
So I catch up to them and we at the boss (that you can run past but they refuse to) where there is him and his 2 buddies (one on each side and easy to kill) that stuns the group and adds come from steath to you.

So fight goes like this: Tank is Takeing HUGE damage to the point I have to stay focused on him alone and cant heal anyone else, we wipe and boss not even close to dead.

I ask: Tank, what gear you have on as your taking way to much damage for this fight
Tank: I have done this before
Me: Great but thats not what I asked
Tank: We can do it, you just need to heal more and they have to stop stunning me
Me: *sees tank so inspects and sure enough, Tank in base Tionesse (not augmented)*
Me: Yeah I see why you wouldnt tell me what your gear is and why your last healer dropped. If you want to do HMs, learn the fights and at least augment the tionese at a minimum, better yet get columi by running storymodes for abit
*leaves group*

So I que up and get Battle of Ilum yet again
So we run through Flashpoint and Im showing them all the shortcuts as none of the 3 ever seen them before appearently

We get to terminal before last boss, I mark and say im ccing Maurader, tank leaps to maurader and breaks cc soon as I cc it. Others start running at me and he doesnt taunt them away or try to intercept them at all and we wipe.

Nerxt round I mark maurader but cc medic cause sure enough the idiot leaps to maurader again DESPITE being told its the cc target.
A dpser covers me this time and we get through fight

We get to last boss (remember im playing my merc so my Kolto AOE is small radius and players need to stay togather in this fight because of that
Fight starts and tank runs to far end away from everyone
2 DPSers make it worse by also spreading out (appearently their guns dont work grouped togather)
Sure enough, to much damage to heal with single target heals and we wipe

Round 2
They do as I say and we hit enrage timer and wipe
Tank: Healer, you need to use *single target heal, forget which he said* more, rapid shot not enough
Me: Ummmm we hit enrage, that has nothing to do with my healing, thats about your all dps being to low. You were alive to hit enrage. I did my job.

Round 3

DPSers once again seperate from group and the damage to high to just single target heal (I need to single target and aoe heal togather plus manage heat by utilizing rapid fire)
Tank: Stop using rapid fire and use your big heals healer
*I dont even respond as fronkly hes to freaking stupid to warrent a responce. Its like he doesnt understand the big single target heals create heat and can only do a certain number before over heated. Gawd I hate when bad tanks try to play other players classes*

Round 4

Hit enrage yet again (all alive and over 80% health at time we hit enrage mark) and tank says
"Im done, healer will not healing properly"

I say this experience cause after this group I (by instinct) started treating and explaining every little detail to any tank I got for a few days because of this experience. Even though most tanks after were fine and didnt need such coddleing.

PS: I requed in GF, got Battle of Ilum for a 3rd time that day. This group 1 shotted FP with no issue or drama and when I told them of my last run they just shook heads and sighed at the nonsense.

Yes there is a shortage of tanks.
But imo BAD TANKS amplify the problem 100 so and make people not want to tank because of the drama they see.

PPS: I dont know if I read OP wrong but if hes running from fight to fight not healing between fights. Thats not really the healers fault if your hps get low. I see it so often. Players under 50% health and just run off and engage into next fight, assuming the healer will rush and heal them up.

Gotta admit, I give pug tanks (or dpsers for that matter) ONE WARNING to heal between fights. Then I let them die once to get the message my words didnt get through to. They keep doing it after that, leave group or kick them (kicked a DPSer just yesterday right before Scarface (what ever name) in Malstrom because he got 3 warnings and would not stop to let tank (Vanguard) recover ammo before next fight)

(obviously im talking about when im low energy/force/ammo and need to recover power but tank/dps will not allow me to. Not talking about when im at full power)

I think part of the problem is people see the fall out of bad tanks and just dont want the hassle and stick mostly to guild groups, not GF.

I know I avoid GF like the plague if I can and have skipped hms completely some days when no guild tank online.
Tionese is perfectly fine for Battle of Ilum hardmode, you'd be plain crazy to waste credits augmenting tionese gear. I'm not saying he's a good tank by any means, for all I know he could have been NOT using a shield or tank stance or even been specced into tanking properly, but tionese gear is MORE then sufficient for hardmode flashpoints minus LI HM which is tuned for Columi

Rafaman's Avatar


Rafaman
12.27.2012 , 02:26 PM | #39
Good post OP. This is an interesting discussion. I run a Shadow Tank, but my main is a dps. But now that I tank, I see the world in a hole new light. lol.

Group finder is what it is. Sometimes you get some good groups and other times they are a nightmare. It's the luck of the draw. But generally, I have found that many peeps who aren't as experienced just need a little guidance and patience. But there are times when you get peeps who think they know how to play their class and or role and clearly do not. They won't take direction and they won't listen. You know what I'm talking about. lol! "Don't go in that room, Ok?" "k" and... you know what happens next.

What has worked for me is to try and be specific as possible on what we are doing when I'm running as a tank. I try not to tell peeps how to play their class, but a few key reminders seem to help such as, "we will need your aoe heals on this one" or "dps, you need to peal off and protect the healer here." I have never kicked anyone. Haven't had too. I always reach out to the person having issues just give them the warm and fuzzy that we can do it if you do x, y, and z.

Having said all of that... I rarely run HM FPs anymore. I get a great deal more out of Ops. That is much easier in my view even to pug. Sounds ironic, but groups take much better direction in Ops, and there is less of a chance of someone not playing their class.

oh btw, in my experience, this is not a f2p issue. This has been and ongoing saga since last December.

Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
12.27.2012 , 02:26 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
PPS: I dont know if I read OP wrong but if hes running from fight to fight not healing between fights. Thats not really the healers fault if your hps get low. I see it so often. Players under 50% health and just run off and engage into next fight, assuming the healer will rush and heal them up.
Fair point, I just can't put down all of the details without it turning into an unreable book. Having been on the other side of that coin (I was a healer for years in WoW) I fully understand how much that can piss off a healer, so I never just charge in without making sure the healer is ready. If I'm low on HP after a fight and the healer is regenerating, I Seethe to recover. Which is what I did. The problem was just really poor healing/gameplay in general for the whole instance. But I totally get where you're coming from on that. Whether I've played a DPS, healer or tank, I have seen other tanks do it and I don't feel bad if they get killed for it.
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