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Lost Island HM should have better loot.

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 11:59 AM | #351
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
Holu hell, you don't want to understand that this FP is made to be done in Tionese (someone did it in a 2-man group ...). You don't even understand that Lorrick drops the Rakata chest and the Columi MH (check who drops them ....).
Not at all, Tier 1 is made for Tionese, LI HM is mostly columi.

Sure some people can do it with tionese or 2, but not the majority and especially not most of the pugs. I've grouped with many many pugs and none of the group with tionese player could beat this through. Some people can do EC with 4 so it should be 4 man FP? No.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 12:16 PM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Rule number 1 in any game is that if you cannot accomplish the objectives - you do not get loot. The fact that this pseudo "many people" of yours is spending hours on this flashpoint and paying tons of repair bill clearly makes it visible that they are not geared or skilled enough for this flashpoint. There is nothing Bioware can do if you don't L2P.
Really? So players should not get any upgrade except from final boss? So Tier 1 HM should not drop those columi belt/bracer/implants/earpieces or those relics or the exotech? EV/KP HM should not drop rakta before final boss? EC HM should not drop campaign before final boss? TFB should not drop dreadguard before final boss?

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Also it's completely asinine how you don't see a Rakata chest and a Columi Main Hand as upgrade.
Only the final boss, Kephess' drop is also quite good, so previous EC HM bosses should only drop rakata? LR-5 and Sav-Rak are around the same difficultly of Lorrick. significantly harder than any Tier 1 HM bosses and none of them are skippable, why shouldn't they drop upgrade to columi players?

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Columi Main Hand is the absolute hardest to obtain Columi gear in the game, I have explained you this before yet you conviniently ignore facts and just continue ranting.
Strip the mods out from offhand and here you go, only SI/JC need it. So campaign MH is hard to get and previous EC HM bosses should not drop campaign?

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And Rakata chestpiece is also the 2nd hardest Rakata gear to obtain.
Same logic as other HM, and you can get BH chest.

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These rewards are VERY GOOD for a flashpoing that is REPEATABLE.
Not if 2 of the 3 bosses drop useless stuff for columi.

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You are given WEEKLY OPS loot in a content that can be repeatable. Continue ignoring these undisputable facts. Go on. Ignore them some more, continue ranting. Fact is all of your points have been debunked, questions answered, facts corrected time after time again in this thread by multiple people. At this point if you choose to dig your head into the sand and pretend the world is a dark place, there is nothing ANY OF US can do.
Fact:
Tier 1 HM drops useful stuff before final boss
EV/KP HM drops rakata before final boss.
EC HM drops campaign before final boss
TFB HM drops dreadguard before final boss

Only LI HM drops columi MH and rakata chest from final boss, previous bosses drop columi leg and boot, and majority need columi to beat this FP so these are useless to them.

Now tell me, are you saying Bioware did all those 4 HM wrong but only LI right, or bosses should not drop useful stuff to the majority of the players who can beat it?

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 12:22 PM | #353
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
One day we'll find a new topic to debate and it will be refreshing.

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Actually, yes. Let's stay within your analogy for a bit. I'm a salaried computer programmer irl. This means I don't get paid for overtime. I can be skilled player and defeat (complete) operations (project) and get good loot (bonuses for on-time delivery) or I can be a less skilled player and overgear (work overtime) the instance.
Do LI HM with columi is not overgearing it.


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1. I say that SM EC and SM TfB don't give good loot either (compared to their difficulty), because they're Tier 2 operations.
2. Then you say that SM EC and SM TfB don't need to give good loot because they're practice for HM.
Story Mode=know the story and get ready for HM
Hard/Nightmare Mode=challenge and loot

Why compare SM to HM rather than HM to HM?

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3. Then I say that HM LI is good practice for T2 ops.
4. Then you ignore that point.
Totally different bosses and tactics, that's not practice.

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5. Then I say that Hard Mode EC for first-timers (and who aren't being carried by a guild) have crappy drops as well. The first time I went all the way through HM EC on my first level 50 (Commando dps), I won 2 drops of Campaign gear but ended up sending them to alts, because they weren't upgrades over my BH.
I don't see it, BH does not give set bonus before 1.5's armor pieces and many people also do it with rakata. Also EC HM is not on GF, which is not recommended for pugs

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 12:26 PM | #354
Quote: Originally Posted by HoboWithAStick View Post
I've healed a tank with 14 k health through this, tioness is fine and everyone gets it for free now.
Again, good groups can do it with tionese but not the majority, not most of the pugs.

Tank does not have big gear challenge in LI HM, unless the rest of the team really overgear him then it could be a bit hard for him to grab aggro.

Healer needs good gear in Sav Rak unless the team could avoid unnecessary damage well and DPS down him before enrage.

DPS' equipment has to be good since Sav-Rak's enrage timer and Lorrick's 1st/3rd phase, it's doable in tionese but very hard and usually not worth the time.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.26.2012 , 12:46 PM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Not at all, Tier 1 is made for Tionese, LI HM is mostly columi.
Just because many people that have no clue how to play their class or how to deal with certain mechanics feel the need to overgear the content does not mean that the content was made for whatever arbitrary gear level you seem to think is required for it based upon your experiences with bad and mediocre players.

HM LI is utilizes *mechanically driven* difficulty. From a flat numbers perspective, the difficulty is appropriate for a full group of Tionese geared players. This is *explicitly* what the developers were consulting when they determined enrage timers, damage dealt by certain abilities, and every other numerically derived aspect of designing HM LI. They designed the content with Tionese geared players in mind. It also wasn't designed with random groups of players in mind, especially those that have no clue what the strats are, how they're supposed to play said class, or what their abilities other than those that deal/heal damage are useful for. As a *mechanically difficult* flashpoint, it requires players that actually know what they're doing in order to clear it effectively. If they know all of the strats and what to do, they'll clear it just fine.

The problem that you seem to have stumbled upon is that the random person running around in Tionese gear has *not one whit* of a clue about how to play their class at 50, much less what they're supposed to do in Hm LI and those players that have alts in Tionese gear aren't in Tionese gear for very long because they know how to gear up characters very quickly. Gear and experience/proficiency are completely separate concepts. There are people in full BH/Campaign that can't seem to understand how to down SM Kephess the Undying. There are also people in full Columi (which is what Sm TfB is designed for) that can clear him, no problem. Just because random people in the appropriate gear can't clear it doesn't mean that it's intended (completely contradictory to explicit developer statements) for higher gear levels than what is explicitly stated. It just means that the random people you're dealing with don't have the skill to actual get through mechanically driven fights and must rely on overgearing the content to make up for their inability to actually deal with the mechanics appropriately.
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Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 01:45 PM | #356
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Just because many people that have no clue how to play their class or how to deal with certain mechanics feel the need to overgear the content does not mean that the content was made for whatever arbitrary gear level you seem to think is required for it based upon your experiences with bad and mediocre players.

HM LI is utilizes *mechanically driven* difficulty. From a flat numbers perspective, the difficulty is appropriate for a full group of Tionese geared players. This is *explicitly* what the developers were consulting when they determined enrage timers, damage dealt by certain abilities, and every other numerically derived aspect of designing HM LI. They designed the content with Tionese geared players in mind. It also wasn't designed with random groups of players in mind, especially those that have no clue what the strats are, how they're supposed to play said class, or what their abilities other than those that deal/heal damage are useful for. As a *mechanically difficult* flashpoint, it requires players that actually know what they're doing in order to clear it effectively. If they know all of the strats and what to do, they'll clear it just fine.

The problem that you seem to have stumbled upon is that the random person running around in Tionese gear has *not one whit* of a clue about how to play their class at 50, much less what they're supposed to do in Hm LI and those players that have alts in Tionese gear aren't in Tionese gear for very long because they know how to gear up characters very quickly. Gear and experience/proficiency are completely separate concepts. There are people in full BH/Campaign that can't seem to understand how to down SM Kephess the Undying. There are also people in full Columi (which is what Sm TfB is designed for) that can clear him, no problem. Just because random people in the appropriate gear can't clear it doesn't mean that it's intended (completely contradictory to explicit developer statements) for higher gear levels than what is explicitly stated. It just means that the random people you're dealing with don't have the skill to actual get through mechanically driven fights and must rely on overgearing the content to make up for their inability to actually deal with the mechanics appropriately.
How is Columi overgearing LI HM? Right not it's very clear.

Tionese=HM FP recruit gear, you get it from the beginning.
Columi= Drops from Tier 1 HM end boss and some previous bosses.

So how is use Tier 1 HM's drop to do Tier 2 HM overgearing it? Just like use columi to do HM KP/EV, or use rakata to do HM EC, or use campaign to do HM TFB is clearly not overgearing it.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.26.2012 , 01:46 PM | #357
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Do LI HM with columi is not overgearing it.
I just wanted to speak to this one point.

Let me quote Allison from earlier in this thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I talked with Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about the difficulty of Lost Island and its rewards, and he shared his insight about these questions.

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

...
A few pieces of Columi isn't particularly overgeared.

FULL Columi + Rakata Chestpiece + Columi MH is.

The fewer pieces of gear you have, the greater the rewards.

Also:
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking
So how is use Tier 1 HM's drop to do Tier 2 HM overgearing it? Just like use columi to do HM KP/EV, or use rakata to do HM EC, or use campaign to do HM TFB is clearly not overgearing it.
HM LI was turned for Tionese
HM EV/KP was tuned for Columi
HM EC was tuned for Rakata
HM TfB was turned for Campaign

MOST players, when they're new to level 50 will:

Bring Columi/BH into HM LI
Bring Rakata/BH into HM EV/KP
Bring BH into HM EC
Bring fully Augmented BH/Campaign into HM TfB

Ergecrs's Avatar


Ergecrs
12.26.2012 , 01:50 PM | #358
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I just wanted to speak to this one point.

Let me quote Allison from earlier in this thread.

A few pieces of Columi isn't particularly overgeared.

FULL Columi + Rakata Chestpiece + Columi MH is.

The fewer pieces of gear you have, the greater the rewards.
Dont you know that inserting facts into an argument on these fourms is strictly prohibited! Next your gonna suggest common sense omg Maybe the Myans were right and the world has ended.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.26.2012 , 01:52 PM | #359
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
Dont you know that inserting facts into an argument on these fourms is strictly prohibited! Next your gonna suggest common sense omg Maybe the Myans were right and the world has ended.


/5char

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.26.2012 , 02:01 PM | #360
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Really? So players should not get any upgrade except from final boss? So Tier 1 HM should not drop those columi belt/bracer/implants/earpieces or those relics or the exotech? EV/KP HM should not drop rakta before final boss? EC HM should not drop campaign before final boss? TFB should not drop dreadguard before final boss?



Only the final boss, Kephess' drop is also quite good, so previous EC HM bosses should only drop rakata? LR-5 and Sav-Rak are around the same difficultly of Lorrick. significantly harder than any Tier 1 HM bosses and none of them are skippable, why shouldn't they drop upgrade to columi players?



Strip the mods out from offhand and here you go, only SI/JC need it. So campaign MH is hard to get and previous EC HM bosses should not drop campaign?



Same logic as other HM, and you can get BH chest.



Not if 2 of the 3 bosses drop useless stuff for columi.



Fact:
Tier 1 HM drops useful stuff before final boss
EV/KP HM drops rakata before final boss.
EC HM drops campaign before final boss
TFB HM drops dreadguard before final boss

Only LI HM drops columi MH and rakata chest from final boss, previous bosses drop columi leg and boot, and majority need columi to beat this FP so these are useless to them.

Now tell me, are you saying Bioware did all those 4 HM wrong but only LI right, or bosses should not drop useful stuff to the majority of the players who can beat it?
What majority? You are the ONLY PERSON arguing for this here, bring this majority of yours forward, come on.
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