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Lost Island HM should have better loot.

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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.25.2012 , 01:28 PM | #341
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.
You and I have danced around this several times.

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.

Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing(tm)

It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.

The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.25.2012 , 10:52 PM | #342
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
You and I have danced around this several times.

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.

Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing(tm)

It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.


The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.
Exactly. Each Tier will increase the skill requirement until even wearing BiS you won't be able to just go "derp a derp Imma smashing my 1-2-3-4 combo again again, derp! Derp!" Eventually people will either have to accept that they need to get better or will go "this game is impossible" (despite thousands of other people having no issues).
FEAR REMAINS ETERNAL, Jung Ma server
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Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 01:25 AM | #343
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
You and I have danced around this several times.

The T2 flashpoints are a different class of difficulty than the T1 flashpoints. Just like the T2 operations are in a different class of difficulty than the T1 operations.
So it should have better drop.


Quote:
Tier 2 ramps up the difficulty a lot, but ramps up the rewards a little. This is a Good Thing(tm)
Why? You should deserve the work and skill you put on the game. Will you accept it if your boss let you work a lot and pay you little?

Quote:
It gives a reason to become better players. If they can't bring the skill, they can always overgear it. And *surprise* the rewards are therefore LESS.
What reason? LI gives nothing BiS, if the drop does not match its difficulty, then less people will do it. Most of the people will overgear it. It's a game, it's pointless to spend a lot of effort for nothing, that's why Tier 1, EV/KP, EC and TFB HM all offer upgrade rather than let people "become better". That's a lame excuse.

Quote:
The way things currently stand, T1 stuff is tuned for the less skilled players, and T2 is tuned for the more skilled players. If you are less skilled and trying to do T2 stuff, you overgear it. Everyone wins.
No, only LI HM is the exception.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 01:26 AM | #344
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Exactly. Each Tier will increase the skill requirement until even wearing BiS you won't be able to just go "derp a derp Imma smashing my 1-2-3-4 combo again again, derp! Derp!" Eventually people will either have to accept that they need to get better or will go "this game is impossible" (despite thousands of other people having no issues).
And why didn't they increase the reward at the same time, just like all the other HM?

Saphra's Avatar


Saphra
12.26.2012 , 05:31 AM | #345
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
And why didn't they increase the reward at the same time, just like all the other HM?
I fail to see how having 2 Columi armor pieces, a Columi weapon, and a Rakata chest drop from one flashpoint isn't a marked upgrade from every other flashpoint. Every other flashpoint drops 2 or 3 Tionese pieces and a single Columi at the end, with MAYBE a Columi earpiece, implant (BoE, and usually reasonably priced on the GTN) or belt, all of which are minor gear pieces when compared with armor and weapons.

This may be incorrect, but I'm getting the impression that you don't do many ops either, or at least none that are punishing to people who don't obey mechanics. Do you find that they aren't worth the reward either?

I'm hearing "ERMAHGERD! It's sooooo hard! It should drop Campaign gearz!". But, hey... it's after 5 AM... sometimes my hearing is off when it gets to be this late.

(Edit) Also, if your argument is that people aren't doing the flashpoint, you're sorely mistaken. Every time I queue as tank or healer, I get a queue in less than a minute. Sometimes it's an experienced group, sometimes it's not. I've had little trouble with inexperienced groups that can listen to these simple instructions (Well, maybe Lorrick is a little more complex)

Boss 1: Ranged and healer, stick together and move out of stuff together around the outside of the room, interrupt incinerate, cleanse incinerate. Ignore adds.
Melee note: If there's melee in the group, the whole group may wish to stick together, (dps and healer BEHIND the boss) and the tank will move the boss along the outside of the room.
Plasma arc note: plasma arc can be largely ignored, but interrupting it is good, as long as you're sure you'll have an interrupt ready for incinerate.

Boss 2: Don't stand directly in front of him if you're not the tank. When he starts pounding his chest and casting Sav-Rak Smash, get friendly with what's under his loincloth. When he jumps up on a pipe, tank and dps hit your pre-assigned button, healer - stand in the middle and heal. Rinse and repeat until looting time.

Boss 3: Phase 1: Move out of stuff, fast. Help interrupt flurry of bolts. Keep your distance and/or stay behind him for "tricks up his sleeve", unless you're the tank, in which case, dodge the fans of satchel charges if you love your healer. When he disappears, dps the kolto tanks hard, and if the kolto tank doesn't get finished off, no worries, just finish off the add, then return to doing the boss thing. When you get past phase 1, life gets easier for everyone.
Phase 2 is cake. Dps him down, interrupt ravage, and move away from rakghouls. On top of being stunnable and puntable, they're slow.
Phase 3: Dps/Healing race. Try to put yourself between him and a wall to minimize knockback.

You may keep this and copy/paste it when you're in a PUG that needs guidance. These are roughly the same basic instructions that i give to every new person or group that I've done HM LI with, many of which have (unwisely) skipped SM LI.

It's worth 8 + 5 BH comms. Most players that i know do HM LI at least once a week for that, and some, like myself, do it more than once a week, due to alts and friends/guildies.

(It is now well after 6 AM, I may re-read the instructions tomorrow and fix the many probable mistakes)

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
12.26.2012 , 06:13 AM | #346
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.
Holu hell, you don't want to understand that this FP is made to be done in Tionese (someone did it in a 2-man group ...). You don't even understand that Lorrick drops the Rakata chest and the Columi MH (check who drops them ....).

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.26.2012 , 06:52 AM | #347
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Because the time and repair bill? Not many people can spend many many hours on this and pay tons of repair bill.

What makes no sense? Other HM all drop stuff that can give upgrade to most of the people. Why didn' HM EC drops 1 campaign+many Rakata or HM TFB drops 1 dreadguard+ many campaign? LI HM is the only exception.
Rule number 1 in any game is that if you cannot accomplish the objectives - you do not get loot. The fact that this pseudo "many people" of yours is spending hours on this flashpoint and paying tons of repair bill clearly makes it visible that they are not geared or skilled enough for this flashpoint. There is nothing Bioware can do if you don't L2P.

Also it's completely asinine how you don't see a Rakata chest and a Columi Main Hand as upgrade. Columi Main Hand is the absolute hardest to obtain Columi gear in the game, I have explained you this before yet you conviniently ignore facts and just continue ranting. And Rakata chestpiece is also the 2nd hardest Rakata gear to obtain. These rewards are VERY GOOD for a flashpoing that is REPEATABLE. You are given WEEKLY OPS loot in a content that can be repeatable. Continue ignoring these undisputable facts. Go on. Ignore them some more, continue ranting. Fact is all of your points have been debunked, questions answered, facts corrected time after time again in this thread by multiple people. At this point if you choose to dig your head into the sand and pretend the world is a dark place, there is nothing ANY OF US can do.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.26.2012 , 10:22 AM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
So it should have better drop.
One day we'll find a new topic to debate and it will be refreshing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Why? You should deserve the work and skill you put on the game. Will you accept it if your boss let you work a lot and pay you little?
Actually, yes. Let's stay within your analogy for a bit. I'm a salaried computer programmer irl. This means I don't get paid for overtime. I can be skilled player and defeat (complete) operations (project) and get good loot (bonuses for on-time delivery) or I can be a less skilled player and overgear (work overtime) the instance.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
What reason? LI gives nothing BiS, if the drop does not match its difficulty, then less people will do it. Most of the people will overgear it. It's a game, it's pointless to spend a lot of effort for nothing, that's why Tier 1, EV/KP, EC and TFB HM all offer upgrade rather than let people "become better". That's a lame excuse.

No, only LI HM is the exception.
This part of the argument is one I'm a little tired of, because we keep saying the same things back and forth and it doesn't change.

1. I say that SM EC and SM TfB don't give good loot either (compared to their difficulty), because they're Tier 2 operations.
2. Then you say that SM EC and SM TfB don't need to give good loot because they're practice for HM.
3. Then I say that HM LI is good practice for T2 ops.
4. Then you ignore that point.
5. Then I say that Hard Mode EC for first-timers (and who aren't being carried by a guild) have crappy drops as well. The first time I went all the way through HM EC on my first level 50 (Commando dps), I won 2 drops of Campaign gear but ended up sending them to alts, because they weren't upgrades over my BH.

How is this not similar to the situation with HM LI?

I wish we could come to an accord on this, but it seems we're on opposite ends of a Bloods/Crips fight and "ne'er the twain shall meet"

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
12.26.2012 , 10:54 AM | #349
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
I don't see any Tionese tanks surviving the last fight with Lokin too well (tank is gonna eat some satchels), so I don't agree the mission is designed for that level of gear. This mission is listed as a Hard level 2, so theoretically everybody will be in full Columi before they walk in. If the mobs dropped Rakata-level amoring, mods, and enhancements the loot would be better balanced.
I've healed a tank with 14 k health through this, tioness is fine and everyone gets it for free now.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.26.2012 , 11:57 AM | #350
Quote: Originally Posted by Saphra View Post
I fail to see how having 2 Columi armor pieces, a Columi weapon, and a Rakata chest drop from one flashpoint isn't a marked upgrade from every other flashpoint. Every other flashpoint drops 2 or 3 Tionese pieces and a single Columi at the end, with MAYBE a Columi earpiece, implant (BoE, and usually reasonably priced on the GTN) or belt, all of which are minor gear pieces when compared with armor and weapons.

This may be incorrect, but I'm getting the impression that you don't do many ops either, or at least none that are punishing to people who don't obey mechanics. Do you find that they aren't worth the reward either?

I'm hearing "ERMAHGERD! It's sooooo hard! It should drop Campaign gearz!". But, hey... it's after 5 AM... sometimes my hearing is off when it gets to be this late.
This FP is made for Columi groups, most of the people so it should drop upgrade to them.
Tier 1 HM drops columi in the end, previous bosses drop tionese or
1. relic
2. columi implants/earpieces
3. columi belt/bracer
4. Exotech pieces
These are all upgrade to tionese players. But does Sav Rak and LR-5 drop anything like this to give Columi players upgrade? No, and their difficulty is higher than any Tier 1 HM boss, why shouldn't they drop rakata implants/earpieces or belt/bracer or high level relics?.


Quote:
You may keep this and copy/paste it when you're in a PUG that needs guidance. These are roughly the same basic instructions that i give to every new person or group that I've done HM LI with, many of which have (unwisely) skipped SM LI.
It's very simple, most of the people need columi to beat the bosses, of course they should drop upgrade to them. The difficulty should match its drop, simple and easy.

Quote:
It's worth 8 + 5 BH comms. Most players that i know do HM LI at least once a week for that, and some, like myself, do it more than once a week, due to alts and friends/guildies.
No, the 8 is weekly and many of them do it with rakata or higher gear.