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Economics of the Cartel Market: Bioware should lower prices to increase profits

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Economics of the Cartel Market: Bioware should lower prices to increase profits

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
12.24.2012 , 07:48 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post





Flash sales may work (in that they increase sales - so for say a game on Steam they may be sensible), but looking at the DvD and MP3 market you cannot beat sheer VOLUME OF SALES (and DvDs actually have production cost too! ), especially with something with a $0.00 production cost.

DvD and MP3 have pushed new profit records not by being expensive, not by fire sales, but by simply being cheap enough that a vast amount of people think "eh, why not?".
Comparing the sale of digital products in item shops to the sale of movies and songs is comparing apples to oranges. As there is no free alternative to the cartel market items, you'll always pay. Whether it's with cartel market items or time investment in the form of credits on the GTN. Whilst the entertainment industry has to directly compete with the free alternative, downloaded tracks and films.

And volume of sales doesn't work in the western world where quite a large portion of players is willing to pay, and quite a large top end is paying in the order of 100$.

Cheaper items much more apply to for example the Southern American or Asian market where the top end spends roughly 10$.

It is the western spending power which keeps these sort of prices high. It is that same reason as to why in China they could get monthly subscriptions to several MMO's for roughly 1 - 2$ whilst here we always paid closer in the order of 15$. These sort of prices are adjusted for maximization of profit, and that's dependent on our spending power and what players are actually spending.
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Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.24.2012 , 07:54 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
Comparing the sale of digital products in item shops to the sale of movies and songs is comparing apples to oranges. As there is no free alternative to the cartel market items, you'll always pay. Whether it's with cartel market items or time investment in the form of credits on the GTN. Whilst the entertainment industry has to directly compete with the free alternative, downloaded tracks and films.

And volume of sales doesn't work in the western world where quite a large portion of players is willing to pay, and quite a large top end is paying in the order of 100$.

Cheaper items much more apply to for example the Southern American or Asian market where the top end spends roughly 10$.

It is the western spending power which keeps these sort of prices high. It is that same reason as to why in China they could get monthly subscriptions to several MMO's for roughly 1 - 2$ whilst here we always paid closer in the order of 15$. These sort of prices are adjusted for maximization of profit, and that's dependent on our spending power and what players are actually spending.



Actually in DvD and MP3 it's been doubly proven in that people will buy stuff WHEN then may be able to get it for free.

Which is exactly what is being said here, the profit values are way off, Bioware EA are trying for obcene profit margins, that are only going to backfire in the long-term (much like they orginally did with the DvD and MP3 industry till they woke up and changed their pricing structure).


Both in DvDs and in MP3's companies HAVE found it works exceedingly well in the Western world, the only problem the movie industry had was Blu-rays, but they've realised their pricing was well off on that too now.

Again selling 100 DvDs for $10.00 doesn't bet selling 1000 DvDs for $5.00 so long as you're production costs are low enough. And cashhop items production costs are effectively $0.00.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
12.24.2012 , 08:13 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
Actually in DvD and MP3 it's been doubly proven in that people will buy stuff WHEN then may be able to get it for free.
You're still missing the point. There is NO alternative on the cartel market. Yes, people are willing to pay for DVD's and music, as long as the cost isn't too high to their liking. However, on the cartel market it's like going to a club. You know you're going to be paying 5$ for a beer or 8$ for a double vodka, regardless of the fact that you can buy half a crate of beer or half a bottle of vodka in the store for that price. You simply have no other option there.

As a result, many people will pay those exagerated prices. The cartel market, is no different. If the cartel market would be selling 1 million credits for 20$ and you had credit farmers selling 1 million credits for 1$, then it'd reach the territory of MP3 & Film price drops. But as that's not the case, these item shops can keep on raising their prices till the point on which the number of players paying starts dropping again.
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Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.24.2012 , 08:17 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
You're still missing the point. There is NO alternative on the cartel market. Yes, people are willing to pay for DVD's and music, as long as the cost isn't too high to their liking. However, on the cartel market it's like going to a club. You know you're going to be paying 5$ for a beer or 8$ for a double vodka, regardless of the fact that you can buy half a crate of beer or half a bottle of vodka in the store for that price. You simply have no other option there.

As a result, many people will pay those exagerated prices. The cartel market, is no different. If the cartel market would be selling 1 million credits for 20$ and you had credit farmers selling 1 million credits for 1$, then it'd reach the territory of MP3 & Film price drops. But as that's not the case, these item shops can keep on raising their prices till the point on which the number of players paying starts dropping again.

I'm not convinced a lack of competition means people will accept price gouging, indeed it was that very thing that fuelled the inital piracy problems with CDs and DvDs (companies artificially rigging prices artificially high - which had been going on since at least the 1950's).

Now there is no free option, but that still doesn't mean people will pay $18.00 for a terrible mount (which should have been free), or even over the odds (compared to other MMORPGs) for cosmetic gear.

Companies can trick consumers with stuff like gambling bags, but even the most naive of consumer eventually wakes up to that.

Sustainability-wise getting people to buy more not only makes more profit, but it retains happy and loyal customers, something price gouging does NOT.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
12.24.2012 , 08:41 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
I'm not convinced a lack of competition means people will accept price gouging, indeed it was that very thing that fuelled the inital piracy problems with CDs and DvDs (companies artificially rigging prices artificially high - which had been going on since at least the 1950's).

Now there is no free option, but that still doesn't mean people will pay $18.00 for a terrible mount (which should have been free), or even over the odds (compared to other MMORPGs) for cosmetic gear.

Companies can trick consumers with stuff like gambling bags, but even the most naive of consumer eventually wakes up to that.

Sustainability-wise getting people to buy more not only makes more profit, but it retains happy and loyal customers, something price gouging does NOT.
You may find this an interesting read:
http://casualconnect.org/mag/summer2...mes_Report.pdf

Additionally it's source data:
http://www.superdataresearch.com/ (although not all free).

It shows you the ARPPU from several countries as an example in the first file.
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AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
12.24.2012 , 08:55 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
And cashhop items production costs are effectively $0.00.
Well, I wouldn't say that. The costs aren't extravagant, but still, expect even a simple retexture to cost about $500 - $3,000. That's salery for designers, reviewers and testers, write-offs for the computers being used, central heating & airconditioning, etcetera. I know some of you might say that you could make one in an afternoon. Well, maybe you could, and should look for a job in that line of work. But practically, one seemingly simple retexture can easily take a week. Adjusting colors and shades, attaching some extra objects as flavor details, cross referencing how it behaves with Unify Colors and having to swap your entire pallete around because some things mess up royaly or simply don't unify (they could actually improve that part of the testing, some items seem to have this reversed, with the primary, larger surfaces unifying to a secondary color and vice versa).

The revenue depends entirely about how often the re-texture is being sold.
Take the Outlaws set for example, it's pretty popular, and costs about $10. If the cost of that outfit lays around $1,000, then they'd have to sell 100 of those to break even. Now I suspect they easily sold a thousand of these. Still, that's 10% cost. Not counting the development or maintenance of the store itself. The Cartel Store itself I'd estimate at having cost about 20-30k, with another 1-2k a month for maintenance.
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VegaPhone's Avatar


VegaPhone
12.24.2012 , 09:15 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by announcerharris View Post
Think of it this way: if they dropped the price of the Valiant Jedi set (for example) in half, enough additional people would buy it that Bioware would actually make more money.
I think you miss the point, and psychology of the pricing.

In business, prices set the tone for something unique and of value. Its has a psychological impact to know it is something rare and more difficult to attain, and less likely everyone has... and therefore more people buy it.

So the rares should be priced as rares.

This is the pricing models for niche markets in marketing and management, they teach this stuff. The reason why it may not make sense is when the individual is a thrifty spender and does not care about exclusives. Then their perspective has a bias... but the 'market' is based on the certain demographics and the logic of the pricing as well. And as explained, it makes it harder to attain increasing its value.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.29.2012 , 04:03 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
You may find this an interesting read:
http://casualconnect.org/mag/summer2...mes_Report.pdf

Additionally it's source data:
http://www.superdataresearch.com/ (although not all free).

It shows you the ARPPU from several countries as an example in the first file.
I'm always waring of people selling things, especially selling things that are supposed to make "me" money.


Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
Well, I wouldn't say that. The costs aren't extravagant, but still, expect even a simple retexture to cost about $500 - $3,000. That's salery for designers, reviewers and testers, write-offs for the computers being used, central heating & airconditioning, etcetera. I know some of you might say that you could make one in an afternoon. Well, maybe you could, and should look for a job in that line of work. But practically, one seemingly simple retexture can easily take a week. Adjusting colors and shades, attaching some extra objects as flavor details, cross referencing how it behaves with Unify Colors and having to swap your entire pallete around because some things mess up royaly or simply don't unify (they could actually improve that part of the testing, some items seem to have this reversed, with the primary, larger surfaces unifying to a secondary color and vice versa).

The revenue depends entirely about how often the re-texture is being sold.
Take the Outlaws set for example, it's pretty popular, and costs about $10. If the cost of that outfit lays around $1,000, then they'd have to sell 100 of those to break even. Now I suspect they easily sold a thousand of these. Still, that's 10% cost. Not counting the development or maintenance of the store itself. The Cartel Store itself I'd estimate at having cost about 20-30k, with another 1-2k a month for maintenance.


The costs are effectively $0.00.

There is a very small design cost, in the case of the Santa Mount very small indeed (an intern and 3 hours worth of PC electricity ), but after that there is NO production cost at all.

Even for the most complex of stuff your $1000.00 design cost seems exceedingly steep, unless they are paying VAST wages per hour, especially as most of the stuff is just re-coloured or stuff that was made in Beta and removed.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.31.2012 , 05:07 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by VegaPhone View Post
I think you miss the point, and psychology of the pricing.

In business, prices set the tone for something unique and of value. Its has a psychological impact to know it is something rare and more difficult to attain, and less likely everyone has... and therefore more people buy it.

So the rares should be priced as rares.

This is the pricing models for niche markets in marketing and management, they teach this stuff. The reason why it may not make sense is when the individual is a thrifty spender and does not care about exclusives. Then their perspective has a bias... but the 'market' is based on the certain demographics and the logic of the pricing as well. And as explained, it makes it harder to attain increasing its value.



There's some logic in that, but then it falls down with the Santa mount price, or indeed the valient jedi armour as that is never going to be rare, simply because it is so much better than the similar armour many classes can (or totally cannot) get.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

SithVeritas's Avatar


SithVeritas
12.31.2012 , 06:28 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by announcerharris View Post
Think of it this way: if they dropped the price of the Valiant Jedi set (for example) in half, enough additional people would buy it that Bioware would actually make more money.
I agree. Cartel crap is ridiculously overpriced.