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Is Merc worth it?


TyrellJonez's Avatar


TyrellJonez
12.21.2012 , 09:57 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Alohen View Post
At that Time it was 31 Points into Arsenal, and in that pvp zone, spamming 4 tracer missiles at an on level Vanguard and then heatseeking missiles (give or take a few crits) took him from 100% to 0% in about 10 seconds
That long huh? =)

But seriously, In PvE we're fantastic. Good burst, good sustained damage. Healers have nice big heals.

Do not venture into pvp with a Merc. Its not worth the aggravation.
If they don't wanna see the hood in me, be satisfied when you see the good in me

Henu's Avatar


Henu
12.21.2012 , 05:54 PM | #12
If you want to PVP with Merc go for it.. dont let anyone stop you.. learn your class, know the tricks and the day we do get a buff and your good at the class you hopefully wont be called a FoTM IF they do get a nice buff.
Kript - SNX - Harby, Yes its a PVE server but honestly there isn't a lot of open world PVP on the other servers anyway.

MarshalNeyo's Avatar


MarshalNeyo
12.21.2012 , 06:36 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TyrellJonez View Post
That long huh? =)

But seriously, In PvE we're fantastic. Good burst, good sustained damage. Healers have nice big heals.

Do not venture into pvp with a Merc. Its not worth the aggravation.
I actually tend to top the charts in damage on my lvl 43 merc. I get 3.9k crits with heatseekers all the time and deal very high damage with unload. The biggest problems for us mercs are the interrupts. I went 1 on 1 with a lvl 48 gunnery commando today and won because I interrupted his first grav round and I kept going with my tracers and stuff. He didn't hardly touch me by the time I was done with him. How good you are with a merc in pvp is based of your ability to get out of LOS, pop a heal, and to keep hammering away.
Taco AKA The Living Taco Legend
LTL of The Bakery Clan
"Taco's for All, Death for Everyone Else."

Baalzamon's Avatar


Baalzamon
12.23.2012 , 06:18 AM | #14
Roll a Sniper instead I play all 8 advance classes and Merc is at the button on the food chain atm.

redfiveroe's Avatar


redfiveroe
12.23.2012 , 02:49 PM | #15
If you take the time to learn all your support abilities and when to use them, you can contribute in PVP. I am never going to top DPS charts, but I usually always do well with objectives/medals. You can be a nuisance for enemy healers if you time your interrupts, stuns, and knock back well. If you play the class well, you can be an asset to any organized team. Random PUGS can be painful though.
Squadron 238

when I roll into Kashyyk, I roll three Jedi deep

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.23.2012 , 03:28 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by af_raptura View Post
Mercs are fine for PvE, its PvP where they have difficulty due to vulnerability to interrupts and not many tools to keep melee off of them.
That's why I don't run in Gunnery/Arsenal.

OP, outside ranked warzones, DPS Mercs are perfectly viable in Pyro spec. It's one of my favorite solo PvP specs, I daresay (and I played every AC type save for PT/Vang at 50, with decent gear). Just remember to keep your distance and abuse your cleanse, LoS and DoT potential.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Kurugi's Avatar


Kurugi
12.24.2012 , 01:03 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
That's why I don't run in Gunnery/Arsenal.

OP, outside ranked warzones, DPS Mercs are perfectly viable in Pyro spec. It's one of my favorite solo PvP specs, I daresay (and I played every AC type save for PT/Vang at 50, with decent gear). Just remember to keep your distance and abuse your cleanse, LoS and DoT potential.
I tried Pyro in PvP today just to try it out, because logically it just makes more sense to me to play Pyro since a Merc's biggest downfall in PvP is mobility. As Arsenal your main proc is Barrage, which resets the cooldown on Unload, a channeled ability that forces you to stay put and is very easily interrupted (honestly I don't see why they don't add uninterruptibility to Barrage. Would make Arsenal much more appealing in PvP, and it's not like there aren't any other channeled abilities in the game that have interrupt immunity). As Pyro your main proc is PPA, which resets the cooldown on Rail Shot, an instant ability that can be fired on the run.

If mobility is your greatest enemy as a Merc then Pyro seems to be the best way to counteract that. Yes, to proc PPA you have to use casted/channeled abilities, but we're a ranged class so that's just the nature of the beast, and you don't use those abilities nearly as often as you do with Arsenal. I was apprehensive of losing a lot of the utility Arsenal offers (Power Barrier, reduced CD and increased KB distance on Jet Boost, root added to Rocket Punch, etc.), but so far I do think I'm liking Pyro a bit more.

My only major complaint about Pyro is that we're more reliant on IM than PTs are, since we don't have a guaranteed way to proc CGC like they do with the Busting Flame talent (we get increased armor pen with Rail Shot and Unload instead). This has lead me to have a bit of heat management issues but that may be due to my inexperience with the spec. To be able to reliably use RS whenever it procs I find I really need to put IM on my target. However, often when my target is half health or so or lower I find they die so fast that using IM feels like a bit of a waste of heat. I don't have TSO yet, so that's probably one problem, but I find myself high on heat if targets end up dieing quickly and I have to switch to new targets and apply IM again, just to be able to reliably use RS as needed. Perhaps I shouldn't be using IM on damaged targets and just hope CGC procs on it's own? I just hate hearing that chuckle signaling RS has reset only to find I can't use it cause my target isn't vulnerable.

I'm 39 on my Merc, so I don't have TD yet. However, I made sure to put 7 points into Arsenal to get Muzzle Fluting, so that will put me behind on getting TD till level 46. Having Power Shot's cast time be at 2 seconds just feels awful in PvP so I chose to prioritize reducing it's cast time over getting TD asap. Was this a smart move?

Overall it's still a fun spec to play. I have tried Pyro on a PT and I do agree it is a much stronger spec for them, but it still feels better than Arsenal for PvP.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.24.2012 , 01:23 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kurugi View Post
I tried Pyro in PvP today just to try it out, because logically it just makes more sense to me to play Pyro since a Merc's biggest downfall in PvP is mobility. As Arsenal your main proc is Barrage, which resets the cooldown on Unload, a channeled ability that forces you to stay put and is very easily interrupted (honestly I don't see why they don't add uninterruptibility to Barrage. Would make Arsenal much more appealing in PvP, and it's not like there aren't any other channeled abilities in the game that have interrupt immunity). As Pyro your main proc is PPA, which resets the cooldown on Rail Shot, an instant ability that can be fired on the run.
Fully agree with the bolded part. Uninterruptable doesn't mean unstoppable (can still be ended with CC or ballistics). Although it would take care not to overdo it, since Arsenal Unload hits very hard when geared. Lest we get a 30-meter resettable Master Strike with a big slow attached to it.
Quote:
I don't have TSO yet, so that's probably one problem, but I find myself high on heat if targets end up dieing quickly and I have to switch to new targets and apply IM again, just to be able to reliably use RS as needed. Perhaps I shouldn't be using IM on damaged targets and just hope CGC procs on it's own? I just hate hearing that chuckle signaling RS has reset only to find I can't use it cause my target isn't vulnerable.
Don't get hung up on IM. It's more of a sustained damage skill. It's very expensive, and should only be woven into your regular rotations when you find yourself firing Rapid Shots a little too much (happens a lot in PvP - and it's not a bad thing, since it's your main DoT and slow). Rapid shots is your bread and butter DoT, not IM. It's a free instant-use skill with a heavy damage 6-sec DoT. Love it, use it, abuse it. I tend to hammershoot the enemy a couple of times (I play a Commando), then load them up with explosives, Railshot=>Unload (can be cancelled harmlessly as long as it procs RS reset). IM is good for the past-opening phase when you're actively maneuvering, and while your main skills are on cooldown/have not reset.
Quote:
I'm 39 on my Merc, so I don't have TD yet. However, I made sure to put 7 points into Arsenal to get Muzzle Fluting, so that will put me behind on getting TD till level 46. Was this a smart move? Having Power Shot's cast time be at 2 seconds just feels awful in PvP so I chose to prioritize reducing it's cast time.

Overall it's still a fun spec to play. I have tried Pyro on a PT and I do agree it is a much stronger spec for them, but it still feels better for PvP than Arsenal for a Merc.
I almost don't use Overload Shot (Charged Blast), since I'm always busy DoTing, cleansing and 'sploding, all while LoS-dancing. Casting something is more of a luxury than a regular occurrence. Just grab 31 Pyro and fill in the frill later.

Get to 40 ASAP - Thermal Detonator makes it kilotons more fun. Bad pun intended. As far as utility goes, don't dismiss Degauss (great kiting tool) and Energy Rebounders (or however the talent that lowers active C/D on shield when taking damage is called).
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Kurugi's Avatar


Kurugi
12.24.2012 , 01:41 AM | #19
That's an interesting way to look at Rapid Shots. Instead of using it as a filler when you need to reduce heat use it as the main means to proc CGC. That would somewhat reduce dependency on IM, though you still run into issues of CGC just not proccing, thus delaying your burst and giving your opponent the chance to gain the upper hand, but I guess you'd just reach a point where you'd just throw out IM.

Seems like if you hold off on using IM that long though the target would already be damaged enough that the damage from IM itself wouldn't be worth the heat cost.

Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
I almost don't use Overload Shot (Charged Blast), since I'm always busy DoTing, cleansing and 'sploding, all while LoS-dancing. Casting something is more of a luxury than a regular occurrence. Just grab 31 Pyro and fill in the frill later.
You'd still need to cast it when you can proc PPA and Unload is on cooldown, but with a 45% proc chance you wouldn't need to cast it too often so I guess getting TD at 40 would be the better option.

Quote:
Get to 40 ASAP - Thermal Detonator makes it kilotons more fun. Bad pun intended. As far as utility goes, don't dismiss Degauss (great kiting tool) and Energy Rebounders (or however the talent that lowers active C/D on shield when taking damage is called).
Most Pyro builds I've seen tend to skip over Degauss, and Energy Rebounders seems to interchange with Automated Defenses quite often too. Seems like if you wanted to take Degauss you'd have to forgo something like Rapid Venting, though with the increased use of Rapid Shots needing Vent Heat up more often may not be as useful.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.24.2012 , 01:53 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kurugi View Post
Seems like if you hold off on using IM that long though the target would already be damaged enough that the damage from IM itself wouldn't be worth the heat cost.
IM is a support skill, nothing more. Fire it a few rapid shots away from your initial opener (when you're low on heat) and you're golden.

Quote:
You'd still need to cast it when you can proc PPA and Unload is on cooldown, but with a 45% proc chance you wouldn't need to cast it too often so I guess getting TD at 40 would be the better option.
You should cast them if the enemy lets you cast them. Which isn't an awful lot. If you stop to cast, even with no immediate threat to your virtual person, you're instantly a target for 5 Marauders to charge you and smash you into oblivion. Doing what you do while LoS-dancing is a great way of saying "I'm really not worth the trouble to try and target and charge me from the thick melee zone while getting pounded."


Quote:
Most Pyro builds I've seen tend to skip over Degauss, and Energy Rebounders seems to interchange with Automated Defenses quite often too. Seems like if you wanted to take Degauss you'd have to forgo something like Rapid Venting, though with the increased use of Rapid Shots needing Vent Heat up more often may not be as useful.
I run this, and I'm fully satisfied. Automated Defenses, in my experience, aren't as useful as they seem on paper.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie