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Cunning for Assault specialist


Diagorias's Avatar


Diagorias
12.19.2012 , 05:50 PM | #1
Hey,

Yes, I do know our Mainstat is Aim, but considering the crit chance of Aim has a diminishing return and cunning gives troopers, aside from the normal TECH bonus dmg, also TECH critical chance, I was wondering if it would be viable to go for cunning at a certain point.
So I have been calculating and parsing at which point the total damage would balance out.

Using MOX I noticed 71% of my damage is TECH based. Using this percentage I calculated the amount of appliable crit (taking the 71% in mind by the crit chance from cunning) chance I got with aim or cunning.
Also I calculated the bonus dmg I get from both stats, keeping in mind both that 71% of my dmg is TECH based and the bonus from the skill tree/buff (9% for aim and 5% for both).

When I looked at 2000 aim, there would be around 0,000111 critical chance from aim. Comparing that with the crit chances of cunning I came upon a cunning of roughly 800. Of course that isn't all, since cunning also lacks the bonus dmg from ranged attacks. So I looked at the loss of bonus dmg between cunning and aim when you would have 800 cunning, which was 63.12 bonus dmg. For this amount of bonus damage you would need roughly 270 aim to make up for.

So that would result in the fact that when you got 2000 aim, 530 cunning would be viable, and probably even better than to go purely for the aim. Of course a total of 2530 aim+cunning is hard to get, so I would have to look at a bit lower numbers. For an example 1700 aim that would be 340 cunning, an amount which is actually easy to get at the moment.

Is there something wrong with my calculations (I used the formulas from mmo-mechanics.com) or am I forgetting something or could it be that a bit cunning is viable for an assault vanguard (this could also be the case for other advance classes like the sharpshooter gunslinger)

If you want the spreadsheet with my used formula and the resulting numbers, I could link them or something similar. It's just a try out, there definitely could be something wrong with my calculations.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
12.20.2012 , 02:01 AM | #2
So you lose:

Ranged Damage Bonus (including 9% aim boost on it)
Ranged Critical Chance (including 9% aim boost on it)
Healing Power: Tech (including 9% aim boost on it)

You keep:

Tech Power Bonus (MINUS 9% aim boost because this is now from cunning)

You gain:

Tech Critical Chance (on a different DR curve from the AIM curve) (no 9% aim boost)


So you can see the Tech Critical Chance gain has to increase damage on tech attacks to outweigh the loss of damage from ranged attacks and the loss of the 9% boost on the tech power because it is now from cunning not aim.

I dunno, sounds like a bit of a leap.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Diagorias's Avatar


Diagorias
12.20.2012 , 06:06 AM | #3
Well that's exactly the reason stacking your mainstat in the first place is better than power. Here is a link to the spreadsheeth where you can see the used formulas https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...U9LNldKMFNZdXc

Power gives purely damage, where your mainstat gives slightly less damage, but also some crit, with a diminishing return. Aside from that the 9% boost to your mainstat is quite small, namely an increase of 0,09*0,2=0,018. But nevertheless it is taken in consideration, as you can see in the spreadsheet.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
12.20.2012 , 11:17 AM | #4
I looked at this before because I had the same idea, and after I crunched numbers it didn't work out. Cunning was good but not better than aim overall... Though I didn't go over 2k primary. The funny thing was cunning vs power... But really when is your choice ever cunning vs power? If you can prove it... Heck I'd give it a whirl! I couldn't prove it though, and through working it I convinced myself it wasn't optimal.... But hey I've been wrong before!
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

Diagorias's Avatar


Diagorias
12.20.2012 , 01:35 PM | #5
Well you could go for maximum aim mods, with little endurance and crit, and get the the crit for enhancements.
That way you would minimize your power (also go for crit/acc/surge/aim on implants/earpiece) and maximise your Aim gain.
Then you will get your Aim high enough for cunning to be viable.

Atop of that, with newer gearsets coming out, the maximum amount of stats will increase as well, so it might be even more likely after makeb for an example.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
12.21.2012 , 10:10 AM | #6
Get cunning datacrons. Maybe if you get a barrel or offhand armoring upgrade with cunning instead of aim it wouldn't be too bad. Otherwise, ignore cunning. Aim will always be better. Even if you had high aim everywhere and went the tactics/AP build that doesn't use HiB/RS, aim will always be better

Its not even close and isn't worth considering outside of datacrons and maybe barrel/offhand armoring.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Diagorias's Avatar


Diagorias
12.21.2012 , 03:19 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
Get cunning datacrons. Maybe if you get a barrel or offhand armoring upgrade with cunning instead of aim it wouldn't be too bad. Otherwise, ignore cunning. Aim will always be better. Even if you had high aim everywhere and went the tactics/AP build that doesn't use HiB/RS, aim will always be better

Its not even close and isn't worth considering outside of datacrons and maybe barrel/offhand armoring.
And where do you base that on? Seeing these calculations 1900 aim and 525 cunning would still be better than more of the cunning put into aim. Pure statements like these are not really that usefull, better back it up with calculations or parses.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
12.21.2012 , 03:47 PM | #8
Not gonna bother doing calculations for something so criminally obvious. Even if the only "ranged" ability you use is rapid/hammer shots, and you don't have any points in the +aim% talent, aim will pull ahead by virtue of affecting more abilities. The minute increase you'd see in tech crit will never overcome that.

Not to mention the op is talking about assault/pyrotech, which sees a very substantial (30% in his own words) amount of damage from HiB/Rail, which would not benefit at all from the cunning.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Diagorias's Avatar


Diagorias
12.22.2012 , 04:11 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
Not gonna bother doing calculations for something so criminally obvious. Even if the only "ranged" ability you use is rapid/hammer shots, and you don't have any points in the +aim% talent, aim will pull ahead by virtue of affecting more abilities. The minute increase you'd see in tech crit will never overcome that.

Not to mention the op is talking about assault/pyrotech, which sees a very substantial (30% in his own words) amount of damage from HiB/Rail, which would not benefit at all from the cunning.
It's apparently not so 'criminally obvious' if the calculations prove otherwise, and yes the loss in ranged damage and crit is considered and calculated with, like it is stated in my first post. That's why the crit chance and damage from cunning is multiplied with 0,71. The skillbonus is also incalculated.

If you only look at damage, sure then cunning would never be viable, but then neither would aim be, since then you would only want power, for power gives the most raw bonus damage. But aim is generally better, at least for a long while, since it also got extra critical chance, only the critical chance has a diminishing return.

Please don't go saying things like these, they are totally not helping the threads on the fora, just because you feel like it is that way, doesn't mean it necessarily is. Come with good arguments or calculations or something to back it up.

deadandburied's Avatar


deadandburied
12.23.2012 , 08:39 AM | #10
Arg did some math then reread it and it's for assault spec. doh!
Triggerfinger Itches, 50 Gunnery Commando, Premonition, The Harbinger