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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

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Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.20.2012 , 01:52 PM | #891
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
It is not "silly to me", its just plain silly. I've already validated my point. I've already demonstrated it with the math. It grants at minute advantage not even worth worrying about. I will demonstrate further if it will help you to understand.

Assuming that we both grind all available sources for BH comes, you grind for the ship parts and I buy them. You will be able to obtain sufficient ship parts to start grinding the space missions in 2 weeks. Considering that my advantage is approximately 14 coms per week, this entire hysterical thread is about an advantage of 28 coms that I could earn in excess of what you can earn by just grinding. It also negates the fact that I have to grind level 7 missions (and therefore "work" for the addition coms).

Even if you did not grind the space coms for the gear, did not grind the cash for the ship upgrades, my total advantage would be approximately 42 coms., and only for a half of a week.

That, in no way, especially since we are speaking of a single player aspect of the game, is play to win. If people had just looked at the situation, the math, rather then running around like their hair is on fire they would see how minute this issue is. Much bigger issues to deal with in this game.



See above. You are not in that game.....not yet at least.



Don't act that way and you won't get called on it. ;p


P2W is P2W.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.20.2012 , 01:57 PM | #892
Quote:
And I disagree. I don't care to play or pay for a game that does something that I feel is truly breaking the integrity of progression in this game. It's sort of like Botting was in D2. It feels great to know that you earn your own windforce. The game lost it's flavor for me, when my buddy showed me his 6 Windforces because he was using a pindlebot... at least it's multi-player favor. Playing with people around you who are blowing up the mobs because they're uber-stacked isn't fun... it's even less fun when you know that the people didn't make any sort of effort to obtain that gear.
This is not D2 and there is no crisis.

Read above. It is breaking nothing. It will have no bearing on "the integrity of the game" whatsoever. It is minute and provides no advantage of note.

People have just gone off the deep end on this without ever really investigating and analyzing what took me about ten minutes to prove out.

If someone can contest the math, if someone can say, "hey Black, you forget x and it will skew your results, then I would change my conclusion, but as of right now, its all negligible...especially since the missions are pretty much broken, no re-spawning as they should be. ;p
May the Schwartz be with you....

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.20.2012 , 01:58 PM | #893
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post

P2W is P2W.
*sigh*

I give up. LOL
May the Schwartz be with you....

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.20.2012 , 02:07 PM | #894
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.

I'm sorry, but this response did nothing but make me more concerned.

It was said that there would be no pay-to-win items on the Cartel Market, that it would be cosmetic only. It's starting to look a little like Animal Farm with the pigs slowly changing the writing on the wall.

I'm not really fussed about the ship parts since it's essentially a mini game with no competition from other players, but it's still a bad move because it trivializes both play time and crafters' efforts.

But what really concerns me is this quote:
"It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other."

No, I don't want to feel that both the market and earning in game are viable options. Cartel Market should not be an option for earning end-game gear of any kind. End of story. Don't even think about it, unless you really do want to drive away all your loyal players (what's left).
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
12.20.2012 , 02:12 PM | #895
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
*sigh*

I give up. LOL
But you still do t get it. Your entire threads of explanation and math about the insignificant extra BH comms are great but pointless.

No one cares about getting BH comms easier. The real problem is the increased ease to which fleet comms can be farmed for Dread Guard crafting mats that are very difficult to come by. If anything the increase in BH comms only gets someone half way to an extra BH piece that when REd is just a guarantee of 1 Stab without criting whereas the crafting boxes are a higher guaranteed drop.

The bottom line is that the Cartel Market is supposed to be for non stats based character customization and access to in game content. Anything that has stats on it that is purchased gives those that can spend real currency an advantage over anyone who cannot. They screwed subscribers, they screwed crafters, and they screwed the player base and not because of an in game mechanics issue or game play decision but in order to make some more quick cash. This has EA written all over it.
Soon.™*
*Soon.™: Bioware Corp, Inc. All rights reserved. "Soon.™" does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. "Soon.™" shall make no contract or warranty between Bioware and the end user. "Soon.™" will arrive some day, however Bioware does guarantee that "Soon.™" will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on "Soon™" as Bioware will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at "Soon.™". Thank you for your patience.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.20.2012 , 02:39 PM | #896
[QUOTE]
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawginole View Post
But you still do t get it. Your entire threads of explanation and math about the insignificant extra BH comms are great but pointless.

No one cares about getting BH comms easier. The real problem is the increased ease to which fleet comms can be farmed for Dread Guard crafting mats that are very difficult to come by. If anything the increase in BH comms only gets someone half way to an extra BH piece that when REd is just a guarantee of 1 Stab without criting whereas the crafting boxes are a higher guaranteed drop.
The person I was answering did.

....and ease? Have you tried the new missions? They are only doable once a week? You can earn Fleet coms much faster, much easier, with less time by just doing all the older missions. Takes about an hour to earn 100 fleet coms a day. You can only earn about 140 a week doing the heroic missions. It is still minute, and can be easily caught up in a day or two.

Quote:
The bottom line is that the Cartel Market is supposed to be for non stats based character customization and access to in game content. Anything that has stats on it that is purchased gives those that can spend real currency an advantage over anyone who cannot. They screwed subscribers, they screwed crafters, and they screwed the player base and not because of an in game mechanics issue or game play decision but in order to make some more quick cash. This has EA written all over it.
I am a subscriber, and this is not "what the cartel market is suppose to be". As I said in my first post in this thread, it is mind projection fallacy, one assuming that their personal belief is law.

As a subscriber, this does not "screw" me, it helps me. Until this time I was at a disadvantage to those that had tons of time to play the game and do that mindless grinding, so from a certain perspective, I could make a blanket statement across the board arguing that this helps subscribers.

Point is, you have the time, not the money. I have the money, not the time. This provides for us both to enjoy the game as we see fit and the differences are minute enough to not really matter. There are far more interesting ways in which they are "breaking the game" then this. This is nothing.
May the Schwartz be with you....

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.20.2012 , 02:44 PM | #897
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I'm sorry, but this response did nothing but make me more concerned.

It was said that there would be no pay-to-win items on the Cartel Market, that it would be cosmetic only. It's starting to look a little like Animal Farm with the pigs slowly changing the writing on the wall.

I'm not really fussed about the ship parts since it's essentially a mini game with no competition from other players, but it's still a bad move because it trivializes both play time and crafters' efforts.

But what really concerns me is this quote:
"It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other."

No, I don't want to feel that both the market and earning in game are viable options. Cartel Market should not be an option for earning end-game gear of any kind. End of story. Don't even think about it, unless you really do want to drive away all your loyal players (what's left).
This is the real issue at hand - although it has been buried because certain people keep arguing about the semantics surrounding the term "P2W".

Glad someone else caught that anyway.

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
12.20.2012 , 06:13 PM | #898
[QUOTE=Blackardin;5613207]
Quote:

....and ease? Have you tried the new missions? They are only doable once a week? You can earn Fleet coms much faster, much easier, with less time by just doing all the older missions. Takes about an hour to earn 100 fleet coms a day. You can only earn about 140 a week doing the heroic missions. It is still minute, and can be easily caught up in a day or two.
The equipment works for any mission. You can faceroll Operation Impossible Sector now which awards 20 comms a day. You're focusing on shrubs in a forrest.
Soon.™*
*Soon.™: Bioware Corp, Inc. All rights reserved. "Soon.™" does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. "Soon.™" shall make no contract or warranty between Bioware and the end user. "Soon.™" will arrive some day, however Bioware does guarantee that "Soon.™" will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on "Soon™" as Bioware will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at "Soon.™". Thank you for your patience.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
12.20.2012 , 06:20 PM | #899
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
This is the real issue at hand - although it has been buried because certain people keep arguing about the semantics surrounding the term "P2W".

Glad someone else caught that anyway.
Right - what's done is done, but where it goes from here is what we need to hear a concrete answer for.

Where will they draw the line?
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Annikhan's Avatar


Annikhan
12.20.2012 , 10:53 PM | #900
I was trying to read through this whole thread before posting but I could see it gowing faster then I could read and most of the comments were getting redundant ant way. SO if I missed something signifigant well I'm sorry.

About all rhe Free ro play vs Pay to win atguements. And the cost of buying aspects of the game a la corte or piece meal as it were...

You know tis is a business right? Bioware and Electonic Arts and Lucas didn't put this game together to provide a charity for Star Wars fans. They did it to make money. The point of Free to play as far as I understand it is to ptovide people an opportunity a chance to play without making a financial comitment. The idea being that if they like what they see they might actually purchase a subscription. So far from I've seen people aren't liking what they've seen and there in lies the problem. I have been a sucscriber from the begining I had enough Fleet Comms and all to buy all the items in question when they were released. I also had all the grade 6 upgrades. I looked at the difference and with a few exceptions the upgrades were questionable. Yes the shields and the amor is a signifigant boost but everything else is meh.

Now if you've tried the new space missions you'll see the fundamentla flaw of the developers. They've designed things to annoy the customer base. I'm gong to make a more detailed post elsewhere directed to the people involved in making the game. But ive seen it go from pages of srevers to a handful. They're trying to make back there costs some how and I'm not going to fault them for that. If you're a subsciber and you aquanered all your CC in the first week and now you can't buy the ship upgrades well that was your choice. As I said I could have bought them with in game currency I could have bought them with my free coins. As it turns out I found someone selling them on the GTN for 30K a piece and that was too good too pass up. Even my cybertech couldn't make them fro that price and I bought the scems just in case a market ever opens up. Yeah I know not likely.

But my question is for all those people crying about what free to play does get you and I want to know what do you want for nothing? The comapny still needs a staff. They need to pay to maintain there equipment and overhead. They *need* to make money some where or they will fold and there will be no game what so ever.

Honestly I'll agree with people who said they need to keep their current subscribers happy because compared to launch there are so few of us left.