Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.17.2012 , 05:06 PM | #881
Quote: Originally Posted by DuckPirate View Post
Do a barrel roll.
Genius.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
VICIOUS
Lord of Corruption

lorelthesecond's Avatar


lorelthesecond
12.17.2012 , 10:32 PM | #882
Looks like Bioware and EA is just going to ignore this and hope it go's away.

I wonder what other pay to win items they will add in todays patch my bet is on Tinoese gear next.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.18.2012 , 06:25 AM | #883
Quote: Originally Posted by darkov View Post
Why is time more acceptable than money?

The barrier should be difficulty, skill, ability, whatever you want to call it. Whether you life investment comes from time or money should be irrelevant, especially in PvE content, which has no impact on anyone outside of yourself.
MMORPGs are an equal playing field.

Paying cash for and advantage is like being able to buy a 5 goal lead in a football match.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
12.18.2012 , 07:10 AM | #884
They included schematics for cybertech crafters for 2 of the pieces - making those same pieces available for CC is absolutely P2W. This is exactly what is wrong with P2W - because it undermines the incentive to actually play the game. And if they keep this up, why would anyone ever pay a sub to play it?
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

DAMossimo's Avatar


DAMossimo
12.18.2012 , 08:28 AM | #885
Seems that the announcement of Makeb has overshadowed this discussion. There wasn't really anything else left to say I suppose.

Not even an attempt to fix this mess in the patch today - I would think altering required mats on schematics and lowering the comm costs to balance against the cost of CC would be pretty simple - if they cared to do it.

It's no longer about being "nickle & dimed", now it's about being "$10- $20'd to death". Inflation is to blame I suppose.

It's over now. Game over.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.18.2012 , 08:40 AM | #886
I don't consider it pay to win- because I haven't bought a single cartel coin, and managed to get a full set of space upgrades from the store.

Even if I hadn't saved up the bonus coins- it would take, what, two months to save up the coins?

Or- I could just buy them- do a week of dailies and you can pretty much get everything off the GTN.


Now- the one thing I could see complaining about is that it is indeed exorbitantly expensive to buy several of the upgrades with fleet/daily commendations- the daily comm ones could be reduced by maybe 25%, and the fleet by 50%- or, add in fleet comm recipes for every piece.

I'm glad the power converter at least is cheap to just buy with credits- since really that's the only necessary one to get through these missions (though I'd consider the missile upgrade almost a must too).

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.18.2012 , 08:44 AM | #887
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
Seems that the announcement of Makeb has overshadowed this discussion. There wasn't really anything else left to say I suppose.

Not even an attempt to fix this mess in the patch today - I would think altering required mats on schematics and lowering the comm costs to balance against the cost of CC would be pretty simple - if they cared to do it.

It's no longer about being "nickle & dimed", now it's about being "$10- $20'd to death". Inflation is to blame I suppose.

It's over now. Game over.
I suspect their "announcement" was just a pacifiying measure to try and get people to forget about it, if they were genuinely concerned about it they've have fixed it already.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Exhaltia's Avatar


Exhaltia
12.18.2012 , 09:26 AM | #888
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
What is your definition of P2W then?
Does buying Ship Grade 7 parts with real life money satisfy the criteria? Yes. It doesn't matter how much end-game gear isn't available on the Cartel Market. The fact exists that there's some. Therefore, it's P2W.
This is the heart of the debate. IMO this doesn't bother me, and is not P2W. Space missions are a side part of the game. There is no competition in it against other players. I am not competing for groups, against other players or even for time. Therefore there is no "Win," and cannot be P2W. It's just some off time playing with a distraction.

Have I used Cartel coins for it? No. Will I? No. Do I care if someone else does, and will it effect me in the slightest bit? No.

Let's not forget that the company producing this game does have to make money. I think it's great if people put in their RL money to buy some POS ship up-grades that have no effect whatsoever on my game play as PvEer, or PvPer.

Summarily, if the definition of P2W is any "gear" then I will except your definition of P2W, but I will rebut your definition of gear. Since it does not equip to any class, or any companion, or any multi-player environment then it is not gear, and might as well be cosmetic items.

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.18.2012 , 10:37 AM | #889
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
P2W for single-player games doesn't bother me because it's my choice. But I've seen people who are willing to throw large amounts of cash at games, and that's their choice... so long as it doesn't affect me.
Fair enough. I suppose this is why many people don't see the ship upgrades as P2W as it is a single-player component to the game, and despite the fact that BH comms are provided as rewards, the grind to get them via space missions is no where in the ball park of doing it "normally."

Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
This is very true. It sort of is pointless, but I guess I felt I needed to respond to a guy who said, "No, this isn't an issue because, IMO, it's not P2W." If he had said, "I have no problems with this model as I don't believe it follows my definition of P2W," then that would be a different story. But he came off as saying that the complaints were pointless based solely on his own opinion.
I can understand that. Same reason I fought for many, many pages beforehand as well against those doing the same thing for the P2W side.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
And I disagree. I don't care to play or pay for a game that does something that I feel is truly breaking the integrity of progression in this game. It's sort of like Botting was in D2. It feels great to know that you earn your own windforce. The game lost it's flavor for me, when my buddy showed me his 6 Windforces because he was using a pindlebot... at least it's multi-player favor. Playing with people around you who are blowing up the mobs because they're uber-stacked isn't fun... it's even less fun when you know that the people didn't make any sort of effort to obtain that gear.
And that's probably the crux of the argument right there. We cannot fully reconcile two different types of playstyles that are diametrically opposed to one another, but can only try to find the common ground that will satisfy the majority of those in both camps. I look at it this way - no matter what games I have played, am playing, and will play, there are elements I like, elements I dislike, and elements I both love and hate. In the end, if a game can offer me enough of the likes and loves that is compelling me to play, than the dislikes and hates don't seem as bad and can be overlooked for the most part. If it can't, then I accept that fact and move on to the next. Fortunately, those I have had to move on from are very few and far between.

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.20.2012 , 01:48 PM | #890
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
It may be silly to you, but that doesn't validate your point whatsoever. The point is that many people feel it cheapens the game in some way when you allow users to buy end game gear. That's why people make rules such as "maximum bets" in poker and/or not allowing people to rebuy... if they didn't have this then the guy with tons of cash could keep throwing money around to be "big stack" and bully his way to victory.
It is not "silly to me", its just plain silly. I've already validated my point. I've already demonstrated it with the math. It grants at minute advantage not even worth worrying about. I will demonstrate further if it will help you to understand.

Assuming that we both grind all available sources for BH comes, you grind for the ship parts and I buy them. You will be able to obtain sufficient ship parts to start grinding the space missions in 2 weeks. Considering that my advantage is approximately 14 coms per week, this entire hysterical thread is about an advantage of 28 coms that I could earn in excess of what you can earn by just grinding. It also negates the fact that I have to grind level 7 missions (and therefore "work" for the addition coms).

Even if you did not grind the space coms for the gear, did not grind the cash for the ship upgrades, my total advantage would be approximately 42 coms., and only for a half of a week.

That, in no way, especially since we are speaking of a single player aspect of the game, is play to win. If people had just looked at the situation, the math, rather then running around like their hair is on fire they would see how minute this issue is. Much bigger issues to deal with in this game.

Quote:
I think people who are already quitting because of this is a bit extreme. But I will also not play in a game where end-game PvE Operation gear and/or end-game PvP gear can be bought with a credit card. "Progression" in this game is already a bit weak... but add in the ability to buy all end-game gear and "progression" means nothing.
See above. You are not in that game.....not yet at least.

Quote:
make you sound pretentious and insulting. If you want to really have an adult discussion, it's best to leave the immature, passive-aggressive remarks back at the kiddie table. Thanks.
Don't act that way and you won't get called on it. ;p
May the Schwartz be with you....