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What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?
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ReverendAnderson's Avatar


ReverendAnderson
12.20.2012 , 08:57 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by RichT View Post
That's a great point to keep in mind. Expectations are any games biggest competitior. Unrealistic ones, are the worst..we've already seen what those do to many an MMO after WoW, this one included.
Expectations are actually hurting WoW for me right now. I grabbed the WoW-WotLK pack for $5 the other day and started playing again after 6 years, thinking the gameplay and structure must be generally better than than SWTOR and than I remembered, because a bunch of my friends were swearing by it and its so popular ... and that just isn't the case.
I'm really surprised by just how bad WoW is at telling a story (despite having so much lore behind it), and how much more fun SWTORs combat is without really being very different. The world is more interesting to me in general because its got much great sense of scale and grandness I hear the real fun in WoW is the end game, so maybe I just have to stick with it, but SWTOR's done the dozens of hours leading up to the level cap way better. From the gathering quests to the instances, to leveling and even the basic combat.
Shouldn't have got it in my head that WoW was supposed to be different, because now I'm hung up on it.
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haliy's Avatar


haliy
12.20.2012 , 08:58 AM | #22
Thanks Atramar, I forgot about NC, EC, and LI. I went ahead and made the adjustment

Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
we also had a content draught, and they spent alot of patches and time on back end stuff that made little difference to the game beyond cosmetic and fluffy. Should we judge them doing what they should have done before launch as what we should expect in the future ?
I'm not judging anybody, i was just asking the question where he was thinking we were getting a new flashpoint, operation, and wz every major patch.

I'm personally fine with the rate that the new content is being released and when they don't release any of the new content, they are making the fixes to some of the major items in the game which really needed to be done when they released the game (Group finder was a huge plus along with the server mergers). The only real thing i wasn't impressed with along with a bunch of others was when some of the guild names were forced to change their name even though no other guild with the same name existed within the server. You still see on an occasion "Name @ server" for their guild name.
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Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
12.20.2012 , 09:06 AM | #23
What's actually wrong with these forums? They announce an expansion and five minutes later all the bullies are here, kicking them in the face. For what reason?

Quraswren's Avatar


Quraswren
12.20.2012 , 09:08 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth__Carnal View Post
The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)
- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)
- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)
- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)
- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )
- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)
- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)
- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)
- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.
I think what you listed is pretty much right except that is what you get for a $40 expansion in most cases.

I'd like to hope we get most of that but for $10 / $20, It will have to be toned down from what you have.

- I would only get 1 warzone, 1 Ops and maybe 2 new FP's.
- We may get old FP scaled up and Nightmare TFB.
- We might see a new race (cathar) but there had been talk of it being in the cash shop. That could change, who knows.
- I doubt we see a new class
- A new faction is possible I guess but unless you think the hutt cartel is that faction, I doubt we get much more than that.
- We know we're getting a new planet, 5 more levels - check
- a new active talent (maybe talents) and talent tree tweaks - Check
- Level cap increase - Check
- New gear and loot - Check
- Bug fixes (which is almost mandatory at this point)

Plus there is the possibility we might see server transfers, race change and a real dual spec. Skies the limit but all speculation at this point.

It's shaping up to be a $10 expansion BUT I would like a few more of the unknown areas to be filled in before I drop even $10 since I still pay $15 a month. The perk and deadline sales tactic is not enough to make me drop cash on it just yet. Not that I won't but I won't do it hastily.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.20.2012 , 09:09 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
What's actually wrong with these forums? They announce an expansion and five minutes later all the bullies are here, kicking them in the face. For what reason?
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AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
12.20.2012 , 09:12 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth__Carnal View Post
The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)
- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)
- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)
- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)
- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )
- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)
- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)
- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)
- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.20.2012 , 09:33 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Cailahan View Post
The Expansions you are thinking of are the full £39.99 Expansions that MMOs like WoW put out. Expansion is the wrong word for Makeb I think, its more of a Adventure Pack - It is bigger than a patch but smaller than an expansion.

In the older days of MMOs, these were more common - EQ2 has had a few of them also that were paid for. If it was a Expansion sitting at £39.99 then yes I would expect most of what you listed but as it is not then the argument becomes invalid.

It seems the word Expansion is the problem, not Makeb.
I think it's that SWTOR is missing a lot of the modern day mmo stuff. I underlined the relevant part of your post.
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MaximusRex's Avatar


MaximusRex
12.20.2012 , 09:35 AM | #28
$9.99!

:d:d:d:d

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
12.20.2012 , 09:39 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Cailahan View Post
The Expansions you are thinking of are the full £39.99 Expansions that MMOs like WoW put out. Expansion is the wrong word for Makeb I think, its more of a Adventure Pack - It is bigger than a patch but smaller than an expansion.

In the older days of MMOs, these were more common - EQ2 has had a few of them also that were paid for. If it was a Expansion sitting at £39.99 then yes I would expect most of what you listed but as it is not then the argument becomes invalid.

It seems the word Expansion is the problem, not Makeb.
This guy has it right but players expecting the moon for nothing is standard fare in SWTOR. This thread proves once again that EA/Bioware will never, ever be able to meet a lot of peoples expecations. They will always fail.
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OrshabaalLord's Avatar


OrshabaalLord
12.20.2012 , 09:57 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth__Carnal View Post
The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)
- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)
- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)
- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)
- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )
- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)
- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)
- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)
- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.
After reading this, I just had to log in. This... is beyond dumb. You're expectations are beyond the roof and what are expected at a $40 EXPANSION. No matter what you think or say this is a expansion. Why?

-Increased level cap
-New planet
-New skills
-New gear
And other POSSIBILITIES:
-New warzone/Operation

Thats more than any patch we've gotten.


Its EXPANDING the level.
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