Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.17.2012 , 08:33 PM | #551
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Except Cash proved you wrong. Pretty conclusively. Using numbers which YOU ignored, and without even bringing up the big fact that Charged Bolts resets HiB while Hammershot doesn't. But hey maybe I didn't follow that argument well enough.
I suggest you brush up on your math as well as your reading skills. The numbers Cash used either assumed CGC never proc'ed or assumed that CGC proc'ed 100% of the time for both RapidShots and PowerShot. This is clearly flawed given the higher chance of CGC proc'ing with RapidShots. I did not *ignore* those numbers. Rather I presented the CORRECT numbers using the proper probability function for CGC proc'ing. And the result, which you know, but chose to *ignore* is that RapidShots does more damage than PowerShot.

Nor did I ignore the issue of RailShot procing. Instead I pointed out the limited window in which one could plausibly attempt to use PowerShot and the multitude of issues (interrupts, stuns, cc's, knockbacks, target movement, cc's on target, AoE on you) that degrade any chance of success. I will note that by using iterative techniques it is possible to determine the crossover probability for these events at which time it *is* efficient to use PowerShot, i.e. when the probability of being interrupted, stunned, cc'ed etc. is below that level PowerShot can be viable (again in the limited time window presented). I'll spare you the mathematics, although something tells me you will demand to see it down the road. But at any rate, that crossover percentage is right at 12%. In other words, IF you are at the right time window in your rotation sequence, AND the combined chance of being interrupted, stunned, cc'ed, pushed back, target moving behind LoS, target being cc'ed or having AoE placed on you is below 12% for that GCD, then there is a very marginal benefit to using PowerShot. That is the bare thread on which PowerShot useage hangs. And even then it is a horribly inefficient heat management strategy. Bottom line: PowerShot sucks.

Feskitt's Avatar


Feskitt
12.17.2012 , 08:51 PM | #552
Quote: Originally Posted by Bluntron View Post
I forgot to add in missle blast. THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY!

i am absolutely giddy right now because Im still doing just as well as everyone else in reg warzones using 3 buttons. Rapid Shots, Incendiary, and Missle Blast......I have what you call a **** eating grin on my face when i play like this. I have never had so much fun.
I often wonder about folks like you.


How do you take personal pleasure in something that has nothing to do with you, and even reveals how inadequate you are? (nevermind, there's that whole PreMade thread full of the same types)

Tracer Missile wasn't even close to a Merc's most powerful attack.
Suckwads spammed it, other suckwads lost to it.
Most apparently didn't even know they had an interrupt. Smart nerf, BW!

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.17.2012 , 09:12 PM | #553
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
*snip* .
just let it go. there is no point in getting into a debate over this when there are much larger, pressing issues to deal with regarding the class

Aaoogaa's Avatar


Aaoogaa
12.18.2012 , 12:34 AM | #554
So painful to pvp as gunnery. The class needs to be able to deliver 100% damage output while engaged at melee or it will never be able to compete with the classes that can. Going toe to toe vs. any other class with the same gear level, blowing all cooldowns and playing perfectly should result in about a 50/50 win/loss ration. If this does not happen then the class needs work. Currently gunnery needs to be nurse maided through by their team to provide lower average damage output.

Commando assault is better off. They can deliver damage on the move. They need the option to trigger HIB off stock strike like vanguard assault. This one change would increase their viability without changing really anything else. To compensate allow vanguard to proc HIB off full auto...this will not increase their burst, just give them more options.

Combat medic needs an escape and better resource management so they can keep up with the other healers. Couple other small changes will make them fine.
-I would rather pay for a great game than play a poor game for free.
-Viable and worthwhile are not the same when it comes to class design.
55 Commando - 50 Gunslinger - 50 Guardian
Beta tester...loved the game, hate what it has become.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.18.2012 , 04:09 PM | #555
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
I suggest you brush up on your math as well as your reading skills. The numbers Cash used either assumed CGC never proc'ed or assumed that CGC proc'ed 100% of the time for both RapidShots and PowerShot. This is clearly flawed given the higher chance of CGC proc'ing with RapidShots. I did not *ignore* those numbers. Rather I presented the CORRECT numbers using the proper probability function for CGC proc'ing. And the result, which you know, but chose to *ignore* is that RapidShots does more damage than PowerShot.

Nor did I ignore the issue of RailShot procing. Instead I pointed out the limited window in which one could plausibly attempt to use PowerShot and the multitude of issues (interrupts, stuns, cc's, knockbacks, target movement, cc's on target, AoE on you) that degrade any chance of success. I will note that by using iterative techniques it is possible to determine the crossover probability for these events at which time it *is* efficient to use PowerShot, i.e. when the probability of being interrupted, stunned, cc'ed etc. is below that level PowerShot can be viable (again in the limited time window presented). I'll spare you the mathematics, although something tells me you will demand to see it down the road. But at any rate, that crossover percentage is right at 12%. In other words, IF you are at the right time window in your rotation sequence, AND the combined chance of being interrupted, stunned, cc'ed, pushed back, target moving behind LoS, target being cc'ed or having AoE placed on you is below 12% for that GCD, then there is a very marginal benefit to using PowerShot. That is the bare thread on which PowerShot useage hangs. And even then it is a horribly inefficient heat management strategy. Bottom line: PowerShot sucks.

Awww macro, I missed you, truly I did. I was starting to think you didn't care.


And I'll concede that powershots/charged bolts sucks. I just think it's superior to Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot supposing you aren't running for your life. (Though as I recall he posted two parses on the training dummy. Now we both know dummy vs actual combat are two different animals, but if I recall right you were claiming Rapid Shots was better period).

I WOULD like to see the mathematics actually. Believe it or not I have some training in the area. I'd be interested in how you calculated the probability that you won't be interrupted, CCd, etc. since that is extremely variable in my experience.

Cash is right though that there are bigger issues with the class than which of those attacks sucks more.

Still waiting on your evidence that BW uses meta averages and ONLY meta averages to determine class balance btw.
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
The next EA/Bioware employee that ever thinks adding more CC to this game is a good idea? Fire them. Don't give them 2 weeks notice. Have security escort them to the door. Thank you in advance.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.19.2012 , 02:19 AM | #556
bump etc.
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
The next EA/Bioware employee that ever thinks adding more CC to this game is a good idea? Fire them. Don't give them 2 weeks notice. Have security escort them to the door. Thank you in advance.

Aaoogaa's Avatar


Aaoogaa
12.19.2012 , 06:48 PM | #557
So I received an email saying that I could purchase the new expansion at 50% off...no details about upcoming class changes or level bump. How about give me details so I can see if the spec I WANT to play will be returned to competative numbers in PVP?
-I would rather pay for a great game than play a poor game for free.
-Viable and worthwhile are not the same when it comes to class design.
55 Commando - 50 Gunslinger - 50 Guardian
Beta tester...loved the game, hate what it has become.

texoc's Avatar


texoc
12.19.2012 , 06:54 PM | #558
I suggest checking this out :

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZachariahPvP

Aaoogaa's Avatar


Aaoogaa
12.19.2012 , 07:05 PM | #559
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
I suggest checking this out :

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZachariahPvP
Wait...a gunnery that was left to free cast...and he did well...not news.
-I would rather pay for a great game than play a poor game for free.
-Viable and worthwhile are not the same when it comes to class design.
55 Commando - 50 Gunslinger - 50 Guardian
Beta tester...loved the game, hate what it has become.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
12.19.2012 , 09:32 PM | #560
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
I suggest checking this out :

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZachariahPvP
Yeah, that's me. And I've been pretty vocal about us needing serious improvements. Don't get me wrong, I can mess up pugs all day long given half a chance, but that's not where our problems are.
WFW - Waiting For Wildstar
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol