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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.19.2012 , 03:42 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
They would rebel because it appears that the Sith Empire is better because they are more opportunities for the aliens. Under the GE aliens were reduced to nothingness. SE may not be much better, but it is. It is pretty easy to assume that AT FIRST GLANCE the galaxy will predict SE to be the winner just for, as others have posted here, their Sith.

Also, they would not be destroyed by the GE. I am thinking more along the lines of Ord Mantell. The SE aids the natives in rebelling, then adopts them into Sith Empire space, granting protection.

Slavery was practiced highly in both Empires. But being an enslaved alien is much different than enslavING aliens, which is what GE did.

ALSO: The SE had a xenophobic tendency toward NON-HUMANOID aliens. Aliens such as Humans, Chiss, Duros, Kaleesh, Twi'leks, Aqualish, Zabraks and Sith Purebloods, were fine. GE was biased against all. This is another reason why aliens would join the SE, for sure the humanoid aliens.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_...ty_and_culture
(Society and Culture)
The Sith Empire having Sith doesn't mean its an I-win button, it has already been debunked that the SE would win. GE isn't biased, already said that they did have non-humans in their ranks it just isn't very noticeable.

Examples being: Ampotem Za, Stafuv Rahz and Bentilais san Sk'ar

So clearly the Empire can tolerate non-humans within their ranks too. I just don't see the Empires recruiting any of them, given that they start at their full height.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galac...ty_and_culture

"However, the cases of Ampotem Za, Stafuv Rahz and Bentilais san Sk'ar indicate that the Empire tolerated Non-huMans if they were willing to pledge loyalty to the Emperor."

Anyway, am done with this lets just end this right now and get a victor. This has gone on long enough.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.19.2012 , 04:50 PM | #252
OK I've been going through this thread with a fine toothcomb and a few things have come to mind.

1. I'm really slow at replying, I realise a lot of my big replies come pages after the topic has been discussed, sorry bout that.

2. A question to you all. We've discussed the Rebellion, but for the wrong reasons. Surely the fact that the GE was defeated by a Rebellion would imply that infighting is a major threat to the GE? Lets face it, everyone in the SE loves the Emperor, while everyone in the GE hates Sidious. So their gonna take any to overthrow the evil and oppressive galactic empire that they so despise. Rebellion that can be instigated by Imperial Intelligence etc.

Thoughts?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.19.2012 , 05:04 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
A question to you all. We've discussed the Rebellion, but for the wrong reasons. Surely the fact that the GE was defeated by a Rebellion would imply that infighting is a major threat to the GE? Lets face it, everyone in the SE loves the Emperor, while everyone in the GE hates Sidious. So their gonna take any to overthrow the evil and oppressive galactic empire that they so despise. Rebellion that can be instigated by Imperial Intelligence etc.

Thoughts?
This is what I was trying to get at with the whole alien thing. If the Rebellion, a small collection of senators and only a few worlds, were to gain that much support against the GE, imagine the support a whole SITH EMPIRE would get.

If the Sith Empire plays its cards right, along with help from the Imperial Intellegence (Cipher 9! ), and uses tactics like on Ord Mantell to a larger scale, it could very well crumble the Galactic Empire.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 05:04 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK I've been going through this thread with a fine toothcomb and a few things have come to mind.

1. I'm really slow at replying, I realise a lot of my big replies come pages after the topic has been discussed, sorry bout that.

2. A question to you all. We've discussed the Rebellion, but for the wrong reasons. Surely the fact that the GE was defeated by a Rebellion would imply that infighting is a major threat to the GE? Lets face it, everyone in the SE loves the Emperor, while everyone in the GE hates Sidious. So their gonna take any to overthrow the evil and oppressive galactic empire that they so despise. Rebellion that can be instigated by Imperial Intelligence etc.

Thoughts?
You pretty much hit the head on the nail there. Infighting within the GE is gonna be a factor. I've got nothing to add.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.19.2012 , 05:08 PM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK I've been going through this thread with a fine toothcomb and a few things have come to mind.

1. I'm really slow at replying, I realise a lot of my big replies come pages after the topic has been discussed, sorry bout that.

2. A question to you all. We've discussed the Rebellion, but for the wrong reasons. Surely the fact that the GE was defeated by a Rebellion would imply that infighting is a major threat to the GE? Lets face it, everyone in the SE loves the Emperor, while everyone in the GE hates Sidious. So their gonna take any to overthrow the evil and oppressive galactic empire that they so despise. Rebellion that can be instigated by Imperial Intelligence etc.

Thoughts?
You don't think the SE wouldn't have infighting either? Cause they sure do, and really...the Rebellion was pretty much getting crushed and would have ended if not that they didn't get huge amounts of resources that equaled the playing field. The GE knows how to deal with Rebellions, they put down many before the Rebel Alliance was actually started its not something new to them, unlike the other Rebellions the Rebel Alliance was more organized unlike the rest which gave them a leg up.

The GE Intelligence, would also snuff out any Rebellion that may get started up.

Now can we just get an answer? This really is just getting tiresome now, wanna move on to other fights and what not.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
12.19.2012 , 05:19 PM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
2. A question to you all. We've discussed the Rebellion, but for the wrong reasons. Surely the fact that the GE was defeated by a Rebellion would imply that infighting is a major threat to the GE? Lets face it, everyone in the SE loves the Emperor, while everyone in the GE hates Sidious. So their gonna take any to overthrow the evil and oppressive galactic empire that they so despise. Rebellion that can be instigated by Imperial Intelligence etc.

Thoughts?
Yes, it is. GE and SE have huge problems with infighting. The thing is, the Rebellion did get so many support because people started to fight for their freedom. That's something the SE can't provide. And it also can't fool all the people that they can, look at what happens on Corellia in the game.

Also, don't forget the Empire (as late Republic) did deal with the staged seperatists.

On the other hand, I could see some Sith switching sides to Sidious. Sith don't seem to be as loyal as Moffs, but Sith are the backbone of the SE and Moffs are the backbone of the GE. Especially if Sidious forsees the plans of the Vitiate to eat them all and leakes them to selected individuals. (Btw. not everyone in the SE loves the Emperor. Many members in the DC have their own goals and supported a "might be fake"-Emperor's Voice because it served their own goals.)

But, maybe this Kaggath is decided by something different: It costs too much lifes and Vitiate manages to succeed in his ritual....
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
12.19.2012 , 05:35 PM | #257
It took Vader and Sidious actively creating the Rebel Alliance through Starkiller and his Jedi Master for them to rise up, hence the Rebellion symbol being the Marek family crest, it's not something that just sprang up, the Empire's leaders actively created the threat in the first place.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.19.2012 , 05:37 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
It took Vader and Sidious actively creating the Rebel Alliance through Starkiller and his Jedi Master for them to rise up, hence the Rebellion symbol being the Marek family crest, it's not something that just sprang up, the Empire's leaders actively created the threat in the first place.
^This. Remember Bail Organa. "We need weapons and starships and people with the courage to use them."

A rebellion like the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic would never have risen without Vader and Sidious. The "leaders" were too scared to do anything real.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 05:54 PM | #259
Keep in mind the Rebellion had basically gathered everything they had for Endor to ensure the second Death Star remained inoperable. The news that Palpatine himself was overseeing the operation only strengthened their resolve. It was a desperate, high risk gamble - they simply couldn't allow the threat of another Death Star to frighten the galaxy into submission. Even with the support of Ackbar and the Mon Calamari, they were losing, badly.

That said though, yes the Sith Empire had their own issues with infighting and rebellion, and it was equally widespread. On top of that, so many Sith Lords were pursuing private agendas rather then focusing on the war effort itself, which is a huge disadvantage to them compared to the Galactic Empire.

Palpatine was pretty much influencing the entire galaxy with an unparralelled form of battle meditation. That's a massive advantage that the Emperor can't match. Look at the battle for the Star Forge and the effect on the battle it had there in only a localised form - the Republic, horrendously outnumbered and outgunned, still managed to achieve a total victory over the surrounding fleet before Malak was even dead, giving them time to position their fleet right on top of the Star Forge itself unimpeded.

On a galactic scale against another galactic superpower, and combined with the fact that the Empire's training regime was focused around facing large armies in the field rather then opposing guerrila warfare, and the fact that they are highly experienced at it (Look at the entirety of the Clone Wars, and even the attack on Echo Base. When they know what they're up against and battles resemble traditional warface, the Empire shines) means that, yes, even against Sith the Stormtrooper Corps shines.

Also keep in mind that the Empire were pretty damn good at killing Jedi in the past. Luke has plot armour, so you can't really factor that in as a rebuttal.

The Sith Empire had a thousand years to prepare, sure...but they can still only field so many men from the planets they have. That limits their overall military power both on the ground and in space. The Galactic Empire on the other hand has...well, the whole galaxy at it's disposal, and the resources and infrastructure of the Republic that preceded it. They can field more men, more ships, they have more money to work with so they don't go bankrupt in the process, and they've got the advantage of experience in the field at conventional warfare. Finally, they have the influence of Palpatine himself, who has a massive effect on morale and efficiency which becomes even more effective in conventional warfare scenarios, where Palpatine knows where to focus his influence to be the most effective.

I'm not saying the Sith Emperor wouldn't put up a good fight - he would, he's definately going to give the Empire a massive shake-up - but in this theatre he can't win. He doesn't have the manpower to face a fully militarized Empire (The Republic tends to field much smaller armed forces in peacetime comparatively and has to rush to build up their forces again when a threat arises), his faction doesn't have the unified resolve in the higher echelons that the Galactic Empire does, his forces are comparatively greener and he's at a massive disadvantage due to Palpatine's influence over the galaxy.

And I know, yes yes, The Sith Emperor has his Sith and his one-man armies and whatnot, but your queen is pretty useless if you've got no pawns to work with. And this is definately a battle that would be decided in a major way by the pawns.
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.19.2012 , 05:56 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Yes, it is. GE and SE have huge problems with infighting. The thing is, the Rebellion did get so many support because people started to fight for their freedom. That's something the SE can't provide. And it also can't fool all the people that they can, look at what happens on Corellia in the game.

Also, don't forget the Empire (as late Republic) did deal with the staged seperatists.

On the other hand, I could see some Sith switching sides to Sidious. Sith don't seem to be as loyal as Moffs, but Sith are the backbone of the SE and Moffs are the backbone of the GE. Especially if Sidious forsees the plans of the Vitiate to eat them all and leakes them to selected individuals. (Btw. not everyone in the SE loves the Emperor. Many members in the DC have their own goals and supported a "might be fake"-Emperor's Voice because it served their own goals.)

But, maybe this Kaggath is decided by something different: It costs too much lifes and Vitiate manages to succeed in his ritual....
The SE has Moffs as well.

Vitiate can sway troops to his side just as easily as Sidious + he's a master at controlling people's minds.

BTW everybody: the people who are under the influence of Vitiate's mind control have a lot of power. Just looka at Vitiate's Bodyguard. The head bodyguard stood up to Lord Scourge (if I remember correctly). With that in mind, Vitiate can brainwash large numbers of people and then send them deep into GE to wreck the place up or steal info.