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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

megoix's Avatar


megoix
12.19.2012 , 05:39 AM | #1821
Quote: Originally Posted by Striders View Post
The goal of this game is not to allow "care bears" to run around winning warzones to make them feel better about themselves. The game provides warzones to fight other players and that is their only job here... the job is not to make sure that everyone is able to win and everyone gets their "trophies" and feels like they are special.

If you want to get better at warzones I would encourage you to do a couple of things:

Work On Your Gear
The better the gear the better chance you have. A lot of those overpowered players in their "pre-mades" have put in a lot of time and effort to get their gear, why should it be any different for anyone else? We have all done it... and yes, I have endured PUGing warzones for an entire day losing most matches but in the end my reward was another piece of gear that puts me closer to my goal(s).

Join a Guild
Yes, that's right. Maybe if you socialize a little you can find like-minded people to queue with... I understand that some people want to be anti-social and guess what? The price you pay for not wanting to join guilds or be social is that you get to PUG warzones by yourself all the time. There is a very simple solution to it but if you refuse than there really isn't anything I can do about it but I'd love to stop hearing you complain.

Realize You Don't Win Them All
I understand that a lot of you grew up in the "participation trophy" / "no dodgeball since it hurts feelings" era of education and because of this you expect everything in life to be a level playing field but that is sadly not reality. There are always winners and always losers and you just need to keep working at getting better. Sadly a lot of the PUGs I have played with (and probably some people on this thread) won't be any better even with good gear. These people won't even realize it's them... they will blame the game, the warzone or the teammates and never realize they are just NOT GOOD.

For anyone complaining on this thread (or the 15 other threads on the same topic) I would suggest you direct all of your negative, whiny energy towards improving your play-style, gearing your toon up and joining a guild. A month from now if you have done that you will probably have forgotten all your ************ and will be one of the people that everyone here is complaining about. People just need to take responsibility for getting better... it won't be handed to you regardless of what your parents tell you.
Holy goose. So much flawed logic and sentiments in one post that there was no recourse but to respond.

1. Your introduction.

This has nothing to to about carebears or anything like it. It has to do with creating an equal chance to win or lose, as close to it as one can.

Allowing premade groups to team versus a group of random people is not an equal chance, it's about stacking the chance in favor of the premade group.

2. Work on your gear

So your basic sentiment is that you, yourself, fought and lost against all these premades. But in the end you got your gear and your team. So now it is your turn to wield the sword of injustice? By the same logic, you also then, believe that if someone steals from you, you can steal from someone else?

2. Join a guild

So basically, find people to create premade groups to pvp with. In turn, not solving the problem, just become a part of the problem (beneficial side).

3. Realize that you don't win them all

I see nothing wrong here. Except that based on your other information, it's quite clear that you don't look at this from a perspective of solo queuing. Which makes it very hard to tell what you actually mean. I choose to interpret it as "Team up or lose sucker!"

You can't win them all. It's a team based game. There's different skill level among players, there's also different gear level among players. You can't control these unless you play with a team.

And there's the kicker, that's the factor you seem to forget, you create premade teams to control the skill and the gear. Which is why allowing premade groups to play versus groups of random players terribly unfair.

The solution is really simply, group premade teams vs premade teams. Equal footprints for everyone involved. And leave solo queue for the solo queuers.

Should be perfect for everyone involved, except you. Because it's quite clear that you think that if you've gone through something, unfair or not, everyone else should do the same as well. My god. If the world worked that way, we'd still be in the stone age.

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
12.19.2012 , 05:47 AM | #1822
Quote: Originally Posted by megoix View Post
The solution is really simply, group premade teams vs premade teams. Equal footprints for everyone involved. And leave solo queue for the solo queuers.

Should be perfect for everyone involved, except you. Because it's quite clear that you think that if you've gone through something, unfair or not, everyone else should do the same as well. My god. If the world worked that way, we'd still be in the stone age.
That's a terrible solution.

Premades are not all equal, hell, they aren't even all the same size! Splitting premades and soloers in to different queues would be a massive fail. All it does is split the problem in two. The warzones would still be unbalanced. The gear levels would still be different. The skill levels would still be different. Nothing would change except you'd realise you were wrong, but you'd ignore that and focus on something else.


The solution is global ranking and matchmaking system. Just how ranked works now, but apply it to absolutely everyone. Then balance teams according to individual player's ranking. A proper ranking and matchmaking system will take care of gear imbalance, skill imbalance and premade balance as long as it applies to everyone.

Every other solution suggested in this thread is half-arsed in comparison.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

megoix's Avatar


megoix
12.19.2012 , 06:12 AM | #1823
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
That's a terrible solution.

Premades are not all equal, hell, they aren't even all the same size! Splitting premades and soloers in to different queues would be a massive fail. All it does is split the problem in two. The warzones would still be unbalanced. The gear levels would still be different. The skill levels would still be different. Nothing would change except you'd realise you were wrong, but you'd ignore that and focus on something else.


The solution is global ranking and matchmaking system. Just how ranked works now, but apply it to absolutely everyone. Then balance teams according to individual player's ranking. A proper ranking and matchmaking system will take care of gear imbalance, skill imbalance and premade balance as long as it applies to everyone.

Every other solution suggested in this thread is half-arsed in comparison.
You fail to realize that skill and gear will always be different. However who you play with can be controlled. So you can leave skill and gear to be random. But you can at least make the premise of that fight, be fair.

I find it rather amusing that you're using the argument against premade vs solo (fairness), as an argument to prevent premades vs premades. Premades are awfully much more close to eachother than they are versus solo queuers.

Funny that you obviously never realized so yourself.

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
12.19.2012 , 06:52 AM | #1824
Quote: Originally Posted by megoix View Post
Premades are awfully much more close to eachother than they are versus solo queuers..
In your opinion.

Your incorrect opinion, as most people who "premade" also solo queue. They're the same people. And then, most premades aren't the elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team of your imagination, but 2 to 4 friends who queued to play the game together.

Anstalt is totally correct with his matchmaking point. It balances for diffrences in gear, skill, and increased effectiveness through a tendency to premade. It would match you against people who are around your effectiveness (whatever the sources of that level of effectiveness), so giving you an around even chance to win. No more roflstomping.
Hasa'diga Eewokai
Ilmarinen 60 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

megoix's Avatar


megoix
12.19.2012 , 07:02 AM | #1825
Quote: Originally Posted by Wainamoinen View Post
In your opinion.

Your incorrect opinion, as most people who "premade" also solo queue. They're the same people. And then, most premades aren't the elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team of your imagination, but 2 to 4 friends who queued to play the game together.

Anstalt is totally correct with his matchmaking point. It balances for diffrences in gear, skill, and increased effectiveness through a tendency to premade. It would match you against people who are around your effectiveness (whatever the sources of that level of effectiveness), so giving you an around even chance to win. No more roflstomping.
No, not in my opinion. They're closer, because as a starting point they're 4 people known to each other. And that is closer than 8 random people. That is a undeniable fact.

Those 2-4 friends that want to play together is a non issue. In my personal experience you'll not notice them over 8 totally random people. It is the "elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team" that stomp anything and everything that is a problem. If you've ever been one out of the randoms in such a premade, you'll quickly realize that PVP just turned into a joke. It's piss easy. No fun. And definitely no fun for the 8 randoms in the opposing team.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't create a proper matchmaking system. I'm saying they should immediately redo/remove the current situation with "premades". And that can't be done unless they remove the ability all together, or make certain that 2x4 people are matched up against 2x4 people. Premade vs premade in other words.

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
12.19.2012 , 08:16 AM | #1826
Quote: Originally Posted by megoix View Post
No, not in my opinion. They're closer, because as a starting point they're 4 people known to each other. And that is closer than 8 random people. That is a undeniable fact.

Those 2-4 friends that want to play together is a non issue. In my personal experience you'll not notice them over 8 totally random people. It is the "elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team" that stomp anything and everything that is a problem. If you've ever been one out of the randoms in such a premade, you'll quickly realize that PVP just turned into a joke. It's piss easy. No fun. And definitely no fun for the 8 randoms in the opposing team.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't create a proper matchmaking system. I'm saying they should immediately redo/remove the current situation with "premades". And that can't be done unless they remove the ability all together, or make certain that 2x4 people are matched up against 2x4 people. Premade vs premade in other words.
We have premade versus premade already, its called ranked warzones. It failed because it split the (small) pvp community in to two separate queues, making queue times longer (big negative) and highlighting the massive differences between good and bad premades to the point where all bad/average premades stopped queuing. You're suggestion has already failed, so I see no reason to repeat that failure.

For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches

However, your method has already failed (segregating the community) because it doesn't address the core of the matter - player skill. Player skill is amplified by gear and premades but ultimately player skill should be the ultimate balancing method, and a ranking system is the closest we can get to measuring player skill.

If we split premade and solo queues, I guaruntee that within a month the premade queue will be pretty much dead and the exact same problems we have now will still exist in solo warzones.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
12.22.2012 , 09:49 PM | #1827
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
We have premade versus premade already, its called ranked warzones. It failed because it split the (small) pvp community in to two separate queues, making queue times longer (big negative) and highlighting the massive differences between good and bad premades to the point where all bad/average premades stopped queuing. You're suggestion has already failed, so I see no reason to repeat that failure.

For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches

However, your method has already failed (segregating the community) because it doesn't address the core of the matter - player skill. Player skill is amplified by gear and premades but ultimately player skill should be the ultimate balancing method, and a ranking system is the closest we can get to measuring player skill.

If we split premade and solo queues, I guaruntee that within a month the premade queue will be pretty much dead and the exact same problems we have now will still exist in solo warzones.
I agree, most premaders are genuinly afraid to go up against other premades. BW should by defualt send all 4 man groups to the ranked wzs and have all 8 man teams with two 4 man premade groups go up against other 8 man two 4 man pre made groups. this will allow solo quers to go up against pugs and all of those whom premade go up against premades. they should also have a cross server que. this is supposed to be a AAA MMO and it does not have a cross server que, that is sad.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
12.23.2012 , 03:50 AM | #1828
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches
Have about we stop lying and start telling the truth. When I premade it's all about taking every advantage we can get to roflstomp the opposition. This game's queue system guarantees that I will be able to roflstomp in about every warzone. If I wanted a challenge I would queue for ranked warzones.

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
12.23.2012 , 05:14 AM | #1829
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
Have about we stop lying and start telling the truth. When I premade it's all about taking every advantage we can get to roflstomp the opposition. This game's queue system guarantees that I will be able to roflstomp in about every warzone. If I wanted a challenge I would queue for ranked warzones.
Holy

S
Hit!

We've got a winner.

It's amazing how people will defend the status quo so long as those who speak loudest benefit most.

The premades in this game are out of control. There is no excuse for it. "OMG I just want to play with my friends."... play against other like minded groups! And the excuses begin and continue and go on and on and on...

There are 8 people on a side in this tiny *** warzone game... there should never have been an allowance for half the team to be a coordinated voice joined pugstomper machine.

Period.

All your excuses are just that... excuses. You want to win versus pugs. The end.

Note to you! That's not a good game, and that's not fun to anyone involved who's actually interested in having fun.

Oh, except to you excusers you like to pugstomp. Yay you.

Feel good?

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
12.23.2012 , 06:48 AM | #1830
I played quite a lot in pugs lately, and honestly i don't think the problem is premades, the "problem" is just very good players;

like, there's some players if i see one of them on my team i know we're not gonna be stomped, if i see one of them on the other team i know it's gonna be a hard match. Now the problem, imo, is if 4 of them queue up together. Since there's very few of them, chances that the opposing team happens to have a few as well are just really really slim.

I have absolutely no idea how to fix it, but what would go a long way imo is if they'd show some grace and stop obliterating the other team once the warzone is decided. Is it really necessary to farm the enemy at the spawn point? Do you have to /say how bad they are? If i played roger federer today i'd get destroyed, but i'm pretty sure he'd be graceful about it, not making fun of me and tell me to "l2p noob". Lots of good players lack this completely, and this makes for a bad experience imo.