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Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 02:10 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
It doesn't matter if the Galatic Empire didn't last for a long time. The goal of the Sith is to destroy the Jedi, and only two Sith lords ever actually achieved this: Darth Traya and Darth Sidious - they are therefore the greatest Sith lords who ever lived. Can't argue with that.
Except for the part where in both instances there were living Jedi still in the galaxy following their deaths?
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.19.2012 , 02:25 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Except for the part where in both instances there were living Jedi still in the galaxy following their deaths?
OK, the Jedi Order.

Timarick's Avatar


Timarick
12.19.2012 , 02:28 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
However, The Sith Empire of the old ages was an entire EMPIRE in itself with no republic interference for over thousand years. Sidious' rule lasted for what, less than 30 ?
That's called the EU writers giving into their fanboy urges and trying to expand powers above and beyond to making the original trilogy null and void.

Ironic for a franchise whose fanbase ADORES the original trilogy but HATES the prequel trilogy, which expands upon concepts of the Force and opened the floodgate FOR events like KOTOR and SWTOR to take place.

IRONY! Gotta love it.

EDIT: Oh and BEFORE people start picking apart my response and claim "Tales of the Jedi started that! not the prequels!" and try to pull their butts out of the flames, anything prior to Episode I still clinged firmly to the realm of the original trilogy and was pretty stiff and ridgid by comparison, the most fancy abilities being created through Sith Alchemy or dozens of Jedi binding their powers of the Light Side as one. KOTOR and SWTOR in turn draw from a balanced pool of both the works of Tales and the early EU, and the prequel trilogy.

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 02:29 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, the Jedi Order.
Alright, I'll pay that.
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Timarick
12.19.2012 , 02:35 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Except for the part where in both instances there were living Jedi still in the galaxy following their deaths?
Such is the cycle of the Force. You can never truly destroy the Jedi anymore than you can truly destroy the Sith.

Destroy their power base and influence in the galaxy and reduce their numbers to 2 or 3? That you CAN do.

But because of sheer arrogance on both sides, they don't bother to completely wipe out the teachings and one always rises, sparking a new Jedi or new Sith Order.

Traya and Sidious are the 2 closest to ever utterly snuffing out the Jedi.

And on the Jedi side, that distinction falls to Revan and Luke Skywalker.

They will always come extremely close, but something will always stir. It is the will of the Force.

GrimAce's Avatar


GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 02:39 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Timarick View Post
Such is the cycle of the Force. You can never truly destroy the Jedi anymore than you can truly destroy the Sith.

Destroy their power base and influence in the galaxy and reduce their numbers to 2 or 3? That you CAN do.

But because of sheer arrogance on both sides, they don't bother to completely wipe out the teachings and one always rises, sparking a new Jedi or new Sith Order.

Traya and Sidious are the 2 closest to ever utterly snuffing out the Jedi.

And on the Jedi side, that distinction falls to Revan and Luke Skywalker.

They will always come extremely close, but something will always stir. It is the will of the Force.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeell...less so because of sheer arrogance, more to do with EU writers dragging them out of the grave kicking and screaming. Keep in mind, EU continuity originally stated that the Sith were done and dusted, and completely wiped off the map. The closest anyone got to a proper Sith revival was the whole Scepter of Ragnos arc in Jedi Academy, or Exar Kun's spirit in the Jedi Academy trilogy.

Huh, never ntoiced that before. But yeah, Dark/Fallen Jedi and Sith spirits were the standard enemy for ages. The Sith were, for a long time, simply not allowed post Galactic Civil War.
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Timarick
12.19.2012 , 02:45 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Weeeeeeeeeeeeell...less so because of sheer arrogance, more to do with EU writers dragging them out of the grave kicking and screaming. Keep in mind, EU continuity originally stated that the Sith were done and dusted, and completely wiped off the map. The closest anyone got to a proper Sith revival was the whole Scepter of Ragnos arc in Jedi Academy, or Exar Kun's spirit in the Jedi Academy trilogy.

Huh, never ntoiced that before. But yeah, Dark/Fallen Jedi and Sith spirits were the standard enemy for ages. The Sith were, for a long time, simply not allowed post Galactic Civil War.
That is completely true, right up until we get to the introduction of Korriban in what I believe was either KOTOR 1 or a novel just before, but it was in the early 2000s, so right around the height of the prequel trilogy. Ancient birthplace of the Sith. Once you brought that into the universe, anyone could become a Sith by studying the ancient teachings. Then Ziost came along, and Dromund Kaas (introduced WAAAY before SWTOR). But it all began with Korriban.

True they could never truly be "Sith" in the same sense Darth Sidious or Darth Malgus or Darth Bane was, but as we all know, Exar Kun became a Sith Lord through a simmilar method: Studying ancient Sith teachings and influence from long dead Sith spirits. And yet nobody disputes if HE was ever truly a Sith.

EDIT: I was just going for an IN-Universe explanation.

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GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 02:51 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Timarick View Post
That is completely true, right until we get to the introduction of Korriban in what I believe was either KOTOR 1 or a novel just before, but it was in the early 2000s, so right around the height of the prequel trilogy. Ancient birthplace of the Sith. Once you brought that into the universe, anyone could become a Sith by studying the ancient teachings. Then Ziost came along, and Dromund Kaas (introduced WAAAY before SWTOR). But it all began with Korriban.

True they could never truly be "Sith" in the same sense Darth Sidious or Darth Malgus or Darth Bane was, but as we all know, Exar Kun became a Sith Lord through a simmilar method: Studying ancient Sith teachings and influence from long dead Sith spirits. And yet nobody disputes if HE was ever truly a Sith.

EDIT: I was just going for an IN-Universe explanation.
Woah, I didn't even see your previous post. Great minds think alike, eh?

Though the difference between Exar Kun and say...Darth Caedus is that way too much effort was made in trying to make Jacen all unique and all-powerful and ****** and whatnot. Exar Kun was considered a great character because writers didn't try to beat you over the head with his awesomeness.
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Timarick
12.19.2012 , 02:56 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Woah, I didn't even see your previous post. Great minds think alike, eh?

Though the difference between Exar Kun and say...Darth Caedus is that way too much effort was made in trying to make Jacen all unique and all-powerful and ****** and whatnot. Exar Kun was considered a great character because writers didn't try to beat you over the head with his awesomeness.
That's pretty much what the writers do these days. Honestly I feel Darth Malgus as a bigger threat than Darth Vitiate, even though he's lived for a thousand years and has god like powers.

Problem most writers have these days is that a. they try too hard to get you invested into their characters and b. they ignore the most basic rule when it comes to writing: The KISS rule: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

Lol. But yeah I totally agree that great minds think alike :P. I figured "ok if placating them with real world explanations is too much for their tiny minds, might as well bust out the in-canon..."

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GrimAce
12.19.2012 , 03:02 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Timarick View Post
That's pretty much what the writers do these days. Honestly I feel Darth Malgus as a bigger threat than Darth Vitiate, even though he's lived for a thousand years and has god like powers.

Problem most writers have these days is that a. they try too hard to get you invested into their characters and b. they ignore the most basic rule when it comes to writing: The KISS rule: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

Lol. But yeah I totally agree that great minds think alike :P. I figured "ok if placating them with real world explanations is too much for their tiny minds, might as well bust out the in-canon..."
Perfect example comes from KOTOR 2. Look at Kreia. She was a phenomenal character because her power wasn't insisted on - she herself spent the entire game intentionally avoiding the limelight, then BAM. Suddenly you have to kill her.

Granted Obsidian did a poor job in areas with TSL's writing and cutscenes, but she is easily the most compelling Darksider I've seen to come out of the EU in recent memory.

Though I can't ever bring myself to like Malgus because...well, let's face it, he's Malak 2.0 without the cool deathscene and Star Forge MacGuffin.
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