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Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 09:37 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
What? It worked once, and it gave them a win, but it won't work again.

The head was removed with the death of Sidious, and the redemption of Vader. Even had Vader not been redeemed, both he and Palpatine would have been blown up with the DS2. Either way, the sith lost yet again.
You're absolutely right. The Sith did lose. But my point is that they were able to do so much more than anyother incarnation of the Sith Empire. And that was because of the Rule of Two. Not to mention Sidious and Plagueis' scheming skills.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
12.18.2012 , 09:47 PM | #42
Didn't Cadeus come back and restart the sith? (That's what I believe, I tried to read his wookiepedia page once, and it was just too long for me)

Edit: my point, the sith never lost in the end. "An individual may die, but our order is eternal"-Darth Zannah

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 09:50 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Segastorm View Post
Didn't Cadeus come back and restart the sith? (That's what I believe, I tried to read his wookiepedia page once, and it was just too long for me)
Edit: my point, the sith never lost in the end. "An individual may die, but our order is eternal"-Darth Zannah
Caedus was Sith, yes. But he never really restarted the Sith. He didn't seem to last that long either. Not with Luke Skywalker around

Edit: The Sith will always be around, but after Sidious' death the Sith have just never been that strong. Sidious was the pinnacle of the Sith so it can only go downhill.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
12.18.2012 , 09:54 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Caedus was Sith, yes. But he never really restarted the Sith. He didn't seem to last that long either. Not with Luke Skywalker around

Edit: The Sith will always be around, but after Sidious' death the Sith have just never been that strong. Sidious was the pinnacle of the Sith so it can only go downhill.
That would explain why kryat was seen as a laughing-stock by Bane, Nihilus, and that other one (forgot his name).......

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.18.2012 , 09:59 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm talking about Sith infighting, which is what the Rule of Two got rid of. Sure some of the other Sith Empires lasted longer than the Galactic Empire, but none of them were able to accomplish what Sidious did. That is what makes the Rule of Two great. Darth Sidious was able to do what no other Sith could do. To say that the Rule of Two is 'weak' or 'dumb' is wrong.

As to your other point. You think other Sith Empires would have no rebellions? Galactic History begs to differ.
sure but they lasted and prospered for milenia, the GE not even 20 years lasted.
You could say that sidious were able to get revenge that the sith long wanted, but thats about it. Imo he achieved that. In practical terms the sith empires of old were much more.
They achivied other kind of things, mainly projecting way of lifes when the dark side was supreme, they created a world/ society where sith lords were part of the ruling elite, and made it work, things were only bad when they chose to confront the republic if you think about it.
There were infights, yet they conquered worlds and prosper alot. What that says? while the sith empire can take a rebelion and get on top, the GE cant because there are only 2 sith.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 10:00 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Segastorm View Post
That would explain why kryat was seen as a laughing-stock by Bane, Nihilus, and that other one (forgot his name).......
The problem with Krayt's Empire (while successful) was that it was plagued with infighting. Krayt was 'killed' by his closest ally after his victory. That's one of the problems the Rule erased. With only two Sith, you only had to worry about your apprentice killing you. The RoT ensured that each new Sith was more powerful than the last by making the apprentice challenge the master for the title. With other incarnations, a group of weaker Sith could gather together to destroy the more powerful master. Bane, with the knowledge of Revan, created a system that prevented such a thing from hapenning.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 10:07 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
sure but they lasted and prospered for milenia, the GE not even 20 years lasted.
You could say that sidsious were able to get revenge that the sith long wanted, but thats about it. Imo he achieved that. In practical terms the sith empires of old were much more.
They achivied other kind of things, mainly projecting way of lifes when the dark side was supreme, they created a world/ society where sith lords were part of the ruling elite, and make it work, things were only bad when they chose to confront the republic.
There were infightings, yet they conquered worlds and prosper alot. What that says? while the sith empire can take a rebelion and get on top, the GE cant because there are only 2 sith.
Yes, other Empires lasted (much) longer than Sidious', but they were never able to conquer the Republic. Sidious did. That's the point of the Rule of Two. We can't say the Rule of Two is weak because other Empires couldn't topple the Republic and the Jedi. Only the Bane dynasty could.

Throughout Galactic History we see Sith Empires rise to challenge the Republic but fail miserably. The Bane dynasty and Krayt's Empire are the only ones to ever truly conquer the galaxy.

The Sith Empire held control of a good portion of the galaxy for a long time. The Galactic Empire held the entire galaxy for a short period of time.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.18.2012 , 10:22 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Yes, other Empires lasted (much) longer than Sidious', but they were never able to conquer the Republic. Sidious did. That's the point of the Rule of Two. We can't say the Rule of Two is weak because other Empires couldn't topple the Republic and the Jedi. Only the Bane dynasty could.

Throughout Galactic History we see Sith Empires rise to challenge the Republic but fail miserably. The Bane dynasty and Krayt's Empire are the only ones to ever truly conquer the galaxy.

The Sith Empire held control of a good portion of the galaxy for a long time. The Galactic Empire held the entire galaxy for a short period of time.
Its a feat, but not a worthwhile one imo they hardly conquered the entire galaxy anyway to be more fair, and they didnt control all of the ex republic territories, but thats ok.
I dont see the bane dynasty as weak, at all, but its weaker in this, point, it was designed for survival and anonimaty, and to acomplish a specific task but thats it, other then that it failed where all the sith had failed before in a way, at least the older empires were more stable, were designed to have ruling mechanism in mind that enable the sith order to be in power, even with the infighting. the GE didnt have this, i think the Bane dynasty didnt forthought ruling an empire.
They were weaker in this yes, the only thing they did was to adapt to a situation if you think about it, because they werent strong enough to take on the Republic/ jedi head on, by conventional means.
While sith empires of old were capable of this and more see sacking of coruscant, plenty of times if i recall.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
12.18.2012 , 11:15 PM | #49
if the Sith Empire never had infighting, they would've won the war a very long time ago
Lord Ravvok
Annihilation Marauder
<Ebon Hawk, U.S>

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.19.2012 , 01:52 AM | #50
It doesn't matter if the Galatic Empire didn't last for a long time. The goal of the Sith is to destroy the Jedi, and only two Sith lords ever actually achieved this: Darth Traya and Darth Sidious - they are therefore the greatest Sith lords who ever lived. Can't argue with that.