Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Rule of two is weak an so is Bane.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.18.2012 , 09:00 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
It did exactly what it was meant to do: destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy. How was that a failure?

The Rule of Two produced the greatest Sith Lord ever and laid the path to take over the galaxy.
They Didnt hold it for long what is the point of taking over the galaxy and getting rid of the jedi, if you arent going be able to govern the galaxy?!. The whole porpuse to have revenge on the jedi, was because they difer from them, if they arent able to exercise that diference in the galaxy, its pointless.

Yes they achieved something, that as far anyone know no sith empire did, to conquer the republic, and "destroy" the jedi, but on the contrary to the previous sith empires didnt last very long, or were even capable of rule it effeciently, what they achieved was nothing in comparison to the empire of marka ragnos, or tulak hord, or even Vitiate empire at least on that area.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
12.18.2012 , 09:01 PM | #32
One other area where it was proved that the Sith as a whole with more than one Sith running around leads to failure is the Legacy era. Darth Krayt, thinking that the Rule of Two no longer needed to be implemented created a new Sith Order. The One Sith. The idea was a good idea, but as always, what happens. In-fighting. The Sith pretty much destroyed themselves.

Darth Krayt was betrayed by his top confidant. The one who helped keep him in power whenever his body was failing him and was also his mouth piece. When it came time, he betrayed his Master, splintered the One Sith into two dueling organizations and allowed the Galactic Alliance to win with the help of the Imperial Knights and Cade Skywalker and the Jedi who again, were not defeated to the extent that they were when Sidious was in power.

So Rule of Two -1
Sith Empire - 0
Jedi - 10011012513
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

Hambunctious's Avatar


Hambunctious
12.18.2012 , 09:03 PM | #33
Except it did not destroy the Republic, and neither did it destroy all jedi.

It made the Republic smaller, and they were called rebels. In the end, the Republic still beat the sith.

Did they cause a lot of damage? Yes. Did they still fall to the Republic like every sith before them? Yes.

If they couldn't hold the galaxy for any longer than they did, then they failed. It wasn't even long enough to be a hiccup in the Republic galaxy's history. If they had held it for even several hundred years it would have been something, but they didn't.

Concentrating power in a small few is doomed to fail, because it's just that much easier to clean out.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.18.2012 , 09:09 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by VigDiath View Post
One other area where it was proved that the Sith as a whole with more than one Sith running around leads to failure is the Legacy era. Darth Krayt, thinking that the Rule of Two no longer needed to be implemented created a new Sith Order. The One Sith. The idea was a good idea, but as always, what happens. In-fighting. The Sith pretty much destroyed themselves.

Darth Krayt was betrayed by his top confidant. The one who helped keep him in power whenever his body was failing him and was also his mouth piece. When it came time, he betrayed his Master, splintered the One Sith into two dueling organizations and allowed the Galactic Alliance to win with the help of the Imperial Knights and Cade Skywalker and the Jedi who again, were not defeated to the extent that they were when Sidious was in power.

So Rule of Two -1
Sith Empire - 0
Jedi - 10011012513
Nah that isnt even completely true, you make it seem like there isnt infighting on the republic or jedi at all... Like there wasnt jedi fallen to the dark side and building their own empires before... oh wait how did everything started again?!
Besides all of the dark empires already mentioned... the rakata, marka ragnos empire, vitiate empire already we going in 3 not 0... just saying.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 09:11 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
They Didnt hold it for long what is the point of taking over the galaxy and getting rid of the jedi, if you arent going be able to govern the galaxy?!. The whole porpuse to have revenge on the jedi, was because they difer from them, if they arent able to exercise that diference in the galaxy, its pointless.
Naga Sadow: Control of a small sector of space. Failed to take over the galaxy.
Freedon Nadd: Control of one planet. Failed to kill Arca Jeth.
Exar Kun: Almost took control of the galaxy. Almost
Revan and Malak: Failed to take over the galaxy
Sith Emperor: Controlled a good portion of the galaxy, but failed. Don't know how, but it seems pretty obvious that he failed.
Darth Ruin: Killed by his disciples.
Brotherhood of Darkness: Failed to take over the galaxy
Darth Sidious: Took over the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi Order.

Who was the most successful here?

Now the One Sith and the Empire took over the galaxy years later, but suffered from the same infighting that previous incarnations suffered from. Darth Sidious' Empire did not suffer from infighting. When Darth Sidious returned, he was going to take back control if not for the most powerful Jedi ever standing in his way.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.18.2012 , 09:19 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Naga Sadow: Control of a small sector of space. Failed to take over the galaxy.
Freedon Nadd: Control of one planet. Failed to kill Arca Jeth.
Exar Kun: Almost took control of the galaxy. Almost
Revan and Malak: Failed to take over the galaxy
Sith Emperor: Controlled a good portion of the galaxy, but failed. Don't know how, but it seems pretty obvious that he failed.
Darth Ruin: Killed by his disciples.
Brotherhood of Darkness: Failed to take over the galaxy
Darth Sidious: Took over the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi Order.

Who was the most successful here?

Now the One Sith and the Empire took over the galaxy years later, but suffered from the same infighting that previous incarnations suffered from. Darth Sidious' Empire did not suffer from infighting. When Darth Sidious returned, he was going to take back control if not for the most powerful Jedi ever standing in his way.
No infighting? so what are the rebels?! galatic systems that begun to leave the GE because of their opression.... You are ignoring my argument... not countering it all those empires werent able to take over the galaxy, but they last longer (some) then the GE did undenyable. That is my point.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Hambunctious's Avatar


Hambunctious
12.18.2012 , 09:24 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Naga Sadow: Control of a small sector of space. Failed to take over the galaxy.
Freedon Nadd: Control of one planet. Failed to kill Arca Jeth.
Exar Kun: Almost took control of the galaxy. Almost
Revan and Malak: Failed to take over the galaxy
Sith Emperor: Controlled a good portion of the galaxy, but failed. Don't know how, but it seems pretty obvious that he failed.
Darth Ruin: Killed by his disciples.
Brotherhood of Darkness: Failed to take over the galaxy
Darth Sidious: Took over the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi Order.

Who was the most successful here?

Now the One Sith and the Empire took over the galaxy years later, but suffered from the same infighting that previous incarnations suffered from. Darth Sidious' Empire did not suffer from infighting. When Darth Sidious returned, he was going to take back control if not for the most powerful Jedi ever standing in his way.
That's like a football team losing to the same team for 50 years straight, win one, and then start another epic losing streak.

They can never win for long with their self destructive attitudes, are apparently unable to compromise, and the rule of two makes it that much easier to remove the head from the beast.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 09:24 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
No infighting? so what are the rebels?! galatic systems that begun to leave the GE because of their opression.... You are ignoring my argument... not countering it all those empires werent able to take over the galaxy, but they last longer (some) then the GE did undenyable. That is my point.
I'm talking about Sith infighting, which is what the Rule of Two got rid of. Sure some of the other Sith Empires lasted longer than the Galactic Empire, but none of them were able to accomplish what Sidious did. That is what makes the Rule of Two great. Darth Sidious was able to do what no other Sith could do. To say that the Rule of Two is 'weak' or 'dumb' is wrong.

As to your other point. You think other Sith Empires would have no rebellions? Galactic History begs to differ.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.18.2012 , 09:26 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Hambunctious View Post
That's like a football team losing to the same team for 50 years straight, win one, and then start another epic losing streak.

They can never win for long with their self destructive attitudes, are apparently unable to compromise, and the rule of two makes it that much easier to remove the head from the beast.
That is the argument of someone that doesn't understand what the Rule of Two was meant to do.

No one knew the Sith were walking right under their noses. For all the Jedi knew, the Sith were all dead. There was no head to cut off.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Hambunctious's Avatar


Hambunctious
12.18.2012 , 09:34 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
That is the argument of someone that doesn't understand what the Rule of Two was meant to do.

No one knew the Sith were walking right under their noses. For all the Jedi knew, the Sith were all dead. There was no head to cut off.
What? It worked once, and it gave them a win, but it won't work again.

The head was removed with the death of Sidious, and the redemption of Vader. Even had Vader not been redeemed, both he and Palpatine would have been blown up with the DS2. Either way, the sith lost yet again.