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Caedus vs Yoda


BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.13.2012 , 03:05 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Andge View Post
G-CANON does not state that Sidious was toying with Yoda. Repeating your interpretation does not magically turn it into a fact.
Actually Leland Chee has in fact stated this...
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
12.13.2012 , 05:56 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Actually Leland Chee has in fact stated this...
Where?
Remember that time when Yoda went to fight Sidious and Sidious tried to escape?
In the Imperial Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.15.2012 , 06:25 PM | #83
Quote:
"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

This was taken from Leland Chee himself. Sidious was more powerful than Yoda. Yoda realized that directly facing Sidious was doomed to failure. It also states that Sidious was too powerful for him to defeat. Nowhere does it state that Yoda wasn't in his prime. It pretty much comes down to this. Yoda may be the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. However, Sidious was simply a more powerful Sith. If you watch the scenes you'll notice that except in two instances it almost seemed as if Sidious was playing with him. The only two times he seemed worried was when he was being pushed back in a saber lock and also when Yoda was absorbing his force lightning.


Thanks to Rhyltran.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.15.2012 , 07:35 PM | #84
You guys do realize that Sideous had probably forgotten more tricks than Caedus knew about, it is arguable that Caedus was stronger than Sideous in raw potential, but he was fairly in-experienced. Yoda probably could beat Caedus due to the lack of experience.

Remember Luke nearly killed Caedus on Caedus's own flagship, if Ben Skywalker hadn't been the psychological mess that he was (courtesy of his cousin), quite frankly the Legacy of the Force series would have ended back in the book Inferno.

Also Luke commented that he saw something horrible would happen if he took on Caedus (see Invincible), where Luke actually said flat out that it would be cause Luke would win, not Caedus.

BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
12.15.2012 , 10:58 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Thanks to Rhyltran.
Yeah, I've read the novelization and I remember the part where Yoda realized he won't win. That's all different from saying Sidious was just "toying" with him through the whole fight though. Yoda was one of about four people who Sidious actually feared, along with Mace Windu and Anakin and Luke Skywalker.
In the Imperial Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.16.2012 , 03:08 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
You guys do realize that Sideous had probably forgotten more tricks than Caedus knew about
Not necessarily, Cadeus went on that trip in search of unique force powers, Sidious (per the Rule of Two) learned the accumulated knowledge of the Sith then killed his master and focused on his political schemes. As opposed to Caedus, who learned from many diverse force groups as well as Sith and Jedi).

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
it is arguable that Caedus was stronger than Yoda in raw potential, but he was fairly in-experienced. Yoda probably could beat Caedus due to the lack of experience.
Caedus was impressively calm, patient, and disciplined in almost all his fights (save for those with his family). I think his experience in battle is easily a match for Yoda's, even at Yoda's age. Jacen acted far older than he was all the time from the Vong invasion to his death.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Remember Luke nearly killed Caedus on Caedus's own flagship, if Ben Skywalker hadn't been the psychological mess that he was (courtesy of his cousin), quite frankly the Legacy of the Force series would have ended back in the book Inferno.
In the Inferno fight it was Ben's stabbing Caedus with a knife, that won Luke that fight and he didn't finish Caedus off for fear of falling to the Dark Side (thus it took Dark Side tactics to beat Caedus that time). I admit Luke could have killed Caedus but honestly, EU Luke would kick our little green friend to the curb so it's not fair to compare the two based on that.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Also Luke commented that he saw something horrible would happen if he took on Caedus (see Invincible), where Luke actually said flat out that it would be cause Luke would win, not Caedus.
I covered this one above well enough I believe.

In short, Caedus wins this. His Skywalker force potential, combined with his heightened and honed battle senses, his lack of pain, and his impressive array of unique force skills rivaled only by Luke himself, Caedus is just a bit too unorthodox and just powerful enough to defeat Yoda.

On another note and one that is often overlooked, is Jacen/Caedus was an EXCEPTIONAL duelist with a saber, even being put on the level of Luke. Heck he fought Jaina with one arm and hole in his stomach and she still needed him to be distracted in order to kill him.
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
12.16.2012 , 01:07 PM | #87
Ok - So slightly off topic

Would Caedus beat Windu?
Quote: Originally Posted by Barringer View Post
Tulak Hord is only an unknown because he killed anyone that has ever seen him fight.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.16.2012 , 05:25 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by fellblade View Post
Ok - So slightly off topic

Would Caedus beat Windu?
In force power, yes. In Saber Mastery, I'd go there to say only Skywalker(Luke) could beat Mace.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.16.2012 , 05:26 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by BradTheImpaler View Post
Yeah, I've read the novelization and I remember the part where Yoda realized he won't win. That's all different from saying Sidious was just "toying" with him through the whole fight though. Yoda was one of about four people who Sidious actually feared, along with Mace Windu and Anakin and Luke Skywalker.
That wasn't from the novelization...
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.16.2012 , 07:15 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Not necessarily, Cadeus went on that trip in search of unique force powers, Sidious (per the Rule of Two) learned the accumulated knowledge of the Sith then killed his master and focused on his political schemes. As opposed to Caedus, who learned from many diverse force groups as well as Sith and Jedi).
And you think Yoda didn't know about a lot of them, back when Yoda took on Sidious he was over 800 years old...

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Caedus was impressively calm, patient, and disciplined in almost all his fights (save for those with his family). I think his experience in battle is easily a match for Yoda's, even at Yoda's age. Jacen acted far older than he was all the time from the Vong invasion to his death.
Jacen acted imbalanced even when not fighting his family, as he fell deeper into the darkside, he grew more and more unhinged.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
In the Inferno fight it was Ben's stabbing Caedus with a knife, that won Luke that fight and he didn't finish Caedus off for fear of falling to the Dark Side (thus it took Dark Side tactics to beat Caedus that time). I admit Luke could have killed Caedus but honestly, EU Luke would kick our little green friend to the curb so it's not fair to compare the two based on that.
I don't recall Luke being in serious trouble in that fight also if you'll recall Caedus couldn't even sense Luke coming. For all Caedus's vaunted power, he nearly got stabbed by his own apprentice through the back. Then he nearly got slaughtered by his apprentice's old man except for the fact he did get stabbed in the back during that fight.


Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
In short, Caedus wins this. His Skywalker force potential, combined with his heightened and honed battle senses, his lack of pain, and his impressive array of unique force skills rivaled only by Luke himself, Caedus is just a bit too unorthodox and just powerful enough to defeat Yoda.
Caedus fed off of pain, he actually did feel it, that said he really wasn't in the same league as Luke Skywalker, considering how Luke was able to lead Caedus around by the nose toward the end. While Caedus had a set of tricks that Yoda might not know, Yoda probably knew a few tricks that Luke didn't even know about (Yoda didn't have time to teach Luke everything he knew).

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
On another note and one that is often overlooked, is Jacen/Caedus was an EXCEPTIONAL duelist with a saber, even being put on the level of Luke. Heck he fought Jaina with one arm and hole in his stomach and she still needed him to be distracted in order to kill him.
Caedus also was scared to death of Luke after that one fight and actually he never was on even level with Luke. I don't believe Caedus had ever fought someone the size of a small child that was a master lightsaber wielder either. I really don't see Caedus beating Yoda.