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PvP theorycrafting-build. Darkness/Deception hybrid.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
PvP theorycrafting-build. Darkness/Deception hybrid.

P-fresh's Avatar


P-fresh
12.13.2012 , 12:24 PM | #1
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...MskZfubRzbZo.2

I've seen alot of Darkness/Madness build with Death field, etc. They seem good but alot force-heavy and lacking some talents that I really enjoy and miss.

I've never seen any Darkness/Deception hybrid for a while & wondering if this one would really work.

Pros:
Surging charge.
Fade. 30% AoE dmg red, good for gimping all smashers & w/e AoE you get thrown upon you.
Induction. this one seems to be left out most of the times. 30% extra crit dmg on maul is a beast.
Blackout. 25% dmg red. With fade a smash get reduced with 55% if timed right. You can see when a warrior is smash-happy.
Obfuscation. With Premonition you always get that 1st CC on other stealthers, or take them out from steealth fast when your team is nearby. Also a 15% movement increase.
Avoidance. The -5 sec Cd on force speed is good against kiters in long fights, also more interrupts (the CC-breaker is, meh)
Dark Embrace. More burst from stealth against healers, etc.
Insulation. IMO a better point spent than in 10 extra force or 10 force every 10 sec. You get 35%+ armor with Eye of the Storm.

Cons:
No Chain shock.
No exploit strikes.
No torment.
No death field.

I havn't tried this one out yet because I'm re-rolling Assassin from my other toons, just wondering what you feel about this specc.
with the extra force regen and some def abilities from darkness, combined with Force pull, Disjunction & out-of-stealth spike I think this one would do good DPS aas well as give some flexibility to run around and harass on the battlefield.

NOTE: This is not me trying to find out ther best 1v1 specc, but one that would provide some benefits to the whole team with flexibility, some surv but not gimping the DPS.

Or am I totally wrong and gimping the trees as F**K here?!
Originally Posted by battlebug
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Mahael's Avatar


Mahael
12.14.2012 , 02:49 PM | #2
I feel your desire and see where you're going, I've been there too. Ubersweet stealthiness, moar speed, and a quick break are really attractive.

However I don't think it competes with the dark/mad build in damage because having surging charge doesn't make up for the synergy of the shock talents in dark/mad. I'm not a pro theorycrafter but in my experience I have better dps with the dark/mad build with only a small tradeoff of utility.

If you want to be the most nerdrage generating man on the team the dark/decep build you posted will do the job.
POT5
Ma'Hael Nae'Blis (Sith Assassin PVP/PVE Tank)
Caûthon Nae'Blis (Scoundrel PVP/PVE Healer)

thefishdude's Avatar


thefishdude
12.15.2012 , 03:15 PM | #3
I've been a sin or shadow since early access and I've tried a ton of variations (full Darkness, Deception, madness and the many hybrid builds in-between). Boredom is typically the main reason I try out new specs now, but I always come back to the same build & stats for RWZ.

27/0/14 and stack as much power as possible.

* yes, I do not take Duplicity. I but that point into a cheaper death field
* I have been know to run 23/0/18 for instant whirlwind in RWZ too

Melee damage bonus: 654
Force damage bonus: 995 (I had it over 1000, but I added more expertise 1240)
Crit: 22%
Surge: 78%

Now, many ppl will reply and say their build is better for this reason and that reason; however, my personal opinion is this build and stats work best. I had a RWZ last night where I did 400k damage and 240k protection (voidstar). Just not sure if the other builds can put out that type of damage and have the same survivability. Once again, this is just my opinion and I encourage you to try it for yourself as you check out different builds.
Forum Warrior Apprentice

Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
12.15.2012 , 04:36 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by thefishdude View Post
I've been a sin or shadow since early access and I've tried a ton of variations (full Darkness, Deception, madness and the many hybrid builds in-between). Boredom is typically the main reason I try out new specs now, but I always come back to the same build & stats for RWZ.

27/0/14 and stack as much power as possible.

* yes, I do not take Duplicity. I but that point into a cheaper death field
* I have been know to run 23/0/18 for instant whirlwind in RWZ too

Melee damage bonus: 654
Force damage bonus: 995 (I had it over 1000, but I added more expertise 1240)
Crit: 22%
Surge: 78%

Now, many ppl will reply and say their build is better for this reason and that reason; however, my personal opinion is this build and stats work best. I had a RWZ last night where I did 400k damage and 240k protection (voidstar). Just not sure if the other builds can put out that type of damage and have the same survivability. Once again, this is just my opinion and I encourage you to try it for yourself as you check out different builds.
I'm favoring 23/3/15. You give up the tk throws for a more consistent everything.

thefishdude's Avatar


thefishdude
12.15.2012 , 09:11 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryvirath View Post
I'm favoring 23/3/15. You give up the tk throws for a more consistent everything.
I've tried working Maul into the rotation and to be honest, I find it a bit clumsy. I do a lot more damage with the Thrash, Shock and Death Field rotation (followed with an HD after 3 stacks).
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JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
12.15.2012 , 09:30 PM | #6
The 23/17/1 is a fantastic build in a variety of situations when specced properly and run from dark charge. However some of the skills you've taken are questionable.
Electric execution for one is a garbage ability that should never be taken under any circumstances.
There's also obfuscation over recirculation - if you wanted to run this build from surging charge, you would always take recirculation over obfuscation. If you were in dark charge your choice would be appropriate, but here it looks like you got confused when you moved your points around.
If you're going to use dark charge, then you would probably want swelling shadows and hollow instead of electric execution and thrashing blades as those abilities would provide extra survivability in the form of self healing. You could opt to keep thrashing blades if you preferred, but at the least you need to lose electric execution.

So depending on which charge you want to run (I'd say use dark charge in this build but surging charge you could make a case for) you need to move points either in one direction or the other for this to be at its most effective.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.16.2012 , 01:05 AM | #7
Back in July before 1.4 hit I utilized a very very similar spec, 23-15-3, I named the spec Dark Maul because your basically a Darkness Assassins exploiting your Maul attacks. Here are a couple of vids I made back then showing how fun it is to crit with Maul 3-4 times in a row lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIC7P7Gh4qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLT6ZYzw_cQ

Keep in mind these videos are before the changes to Induction, Darkswell, and Lightning Reflexes/Recovery talents. Now when I tried Dark Maul before I noticed that just Saber Stikes and Mauls (with out Exploit Weakness) was actually more damage than just spamming Thrash and Energized Shocks. The only catch was to maintain position over your target for your Maul spam. Well now Mauls will be hitting even harder as well as even more defense and better force regen via Lightning Reflexes. It got me thinking.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrszMskcZfhbRz.2 I am going to try this spec for a few days see how it plays out. I do not think it will be better than Wakajinn or 23-1-17 but I am going to give it a go anyways. My goal really is to see how many times I can Maul spam even with out EW proc. I will be using Saber Strike as my filler so I can always have as much force as possible for Mauls. I will be exploiting Blackout as well to maximize my force regen for Maul spam. I am even going to try out Nerve Wracking to see if that 9% extra damage can send my Mauls into the 6k-7k range. And just because someone always asks, I will be running Dark Charge for the best defense possible. IMO running Surging Charge with out Crackling Blasts is just fail, your Discharge will be weaker than Shock on 3x's the CD.

Anyways if I like the way it plays I will put up some vids and hopefully rez Dark Maul from the dead.

thefishdude's Avatar


thefishdude
12.16.2012 , 07:14 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
Back in July before 1.4 hit I utilized a very very similar spec, 23-15-3, I named the spec Dark Maul because your basically a Darkness Assassins exploiting your Maul attacks. Here are a couple of vids I made back then showing how fun it is to crit with Maul 3-4 times in a row lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIC7P7Gh4qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLT6ZYzw_cQ

Keep in mind these videos are before the changes to Induction, Darkswell, and Lightning Reflexes/Recovery talents. Now when I tried Dark Maul before I noticed that just Saber Stikes and Mauls (with out Exploit Weakness) was actually more damage than just spamming Thrash and Energized Shocks. The only catch was to maintain position over your target for your Maul spam. Well now Mauls will be hitting even harder as well as even more defense and better force regen via Lightning Reflexes. It got me thinking.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrszMskcZfhbRz.2 I am going to try this spec for a few days see how it plays out. I do not think it will be better than Wakajinn or 23-1-17 but I am going to give it a go anyways. My goal really is to see how many times I can Maul spam even with out EW proc. I will be using Saber Strike as my filler so I can always have as much force as possible for Mauls. I will be exploiting Blackout as well to maximize my force regen for Maul spam. I am even going to try out Nerve Wracking to see if that 9% extra damage can send my Mauls into the 6k-7k range. And just because someone always asks, I will be running Dark Charge for the best defense possible. IMO running Surging Charge with out Crackling Blasts is just fail, your Discharge will be weaker than Shock on 3x's the CD.

Anyways if I like the way it plays I will put up some vids and hopefully rez Dark Maul from the dead.


Good pvper will never let you just "Maul spam" behind them. I suspect this spec would work well against pugs, but not in a rated match against a good squad.
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RalphB's Avatar


RalphB
12.17.2012 , 06:31 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
Back in July before 1.4 hit I utilized a very very similar spec, 23-15-3, I named the spec Dark Maul because your basically a Darkness Assassins exploiting your Maul attacks. Here are a couple of vids I made back then showing how fun it is to crit with Maul 3-4 times in a row lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIC7P7Gh4qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLT6ZYzw_cQ

Keep in mind these videos are before the changes to Induction, Darkswell, and Lightning Reflexes/Recovery talents. Now when I tried Dark Maul before I noticed that just Saber Stikes and Mauls (with out Exploit Weakness) was actually more damage than just spamming Thrash and Energized Shocks. The only catch was to maintain position over your target for your Maul spam. Well now Mauls will be hitting even harder as well as even more defense and better force regen via Lightning Reflexes. It got me thinking.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrszMskcZfhbRz.2 I am going to try this spec for a few days see how it plays out. I do not think it will be better than Wakajinn or 23-1-17 but I am going to give it a go anyways. My goal really is to see how many times I can Maul spam even with out EW proc. I will be using Saber Strike as my filler so I can always have as much force as possible for Mauls. I will be exploiting Blackout as well to maximize my force regen for Maul spam. I am even going to try out Nerve Wracking to see if that 9% extra damage can send my Mauls into the 6k-7k range. And just because someone always asks, I will be running Dark Charge for the best defense possible. IMO running Surging Charge with out Crackling Blasts is just fail, your Discharge will be weaker than Shock on 3x's the CD.

Anyways if I like the way it plays I will put up some vids and hopefully rez Dark Maul from the dead.
If you are going to run Dark Charge, why bother putting points in Surging Charge and Induction (it's a great talent, but it only works running Surging Charge)?
“I have studied you, and found nothing but weakness.” ― Darth Sion

CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
12.17.2012 , 07:50 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by RalphB View Post
If you are going to run Dark Charge, why bother putting points in Surging Charge and Induction (it's a great talent, but it only works running Surging Charge)?
While you do not get the project reduction you keep the 30%crit multiplier thing from induction while in dark charge