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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:03 PM | #751
Quote: Originally Posted by TheGauntman View Post
It is not pay to win, you are playing against yourself. And no one is affected by it. End of story.
My position exactly.

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:03 PM | #752
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
Again, I am not complaining simply pointing out some nasty hypocrisy.

I would like to clarify that I am not calling subscribers hypocrits. I am calling people who deride what they call "pay to win" while at the same time engaging in functionally equivalent behavior through the act of subscribing, hypocrits.
Don't you see by this very statement you ARE in fact calling ALL subscribers hypocrits for subscribing. We are subscribing and in this case "getting to keep the features" that we have had all along. We have ALWAYS since the begining of this game had these features. To continue to keep them and still pay our subscription is NOT hypocrisy. It is the NORM. It is SELFISH and ENTITLED for someone that is a Freeple to claim they should have every feature that a subscriber has or it's NOT FAIR they are PAYING TO WIN. You aren't paying anything. You should feel GRATEFUL that EAware is daft enough to GIVE YOU THE ENTIRE LEVELING GAME (their best stuff) for free. That's right you are getting way MORE for free than you ought. You should be RESTRICTED MORE than you are if you are a freeple.

This is a clear example of "why buy the cow, we are getting the milk for free, but we want two cows now, one isn't enough".

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:06 PM | #753
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Don't you see by this very statement you ARE in fact calling ALL subscribers hypocrits for subscribing.
Not at all. That cannot be inferred from anything I have said. I have said only that the hypocrits are those who are opposed to this thing they call "pay to win" which as they define it includes paying for conveniences and means of circumvention *if* they also happen to be subscribers.

edit: It might clarify what I am saying if I add that I do not believe that paying for convieninces, or even gear, is "pay to win" as long as cash is not the only means of acquiring those things.

BadOrb's Avatar


BadOrb
12.14.2012 , 04:12 PM | #754
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
Not at all. That cannot be inferred from anything I have said. I have said only that the hypocrits are those who are opposed to this thing they call "pay to win" which as they define it includes paying for conveniences and means of circumvention *if* they also happen to be subscribers.

edit: It might clarify what I am saying if I add that I do not believe that paying for convieninces, or even gear, is "pay to win" as long as cash is not the only means of acquiring those things.
Look I don't think the 3 space packs are P2W , but even if I did it would not make me a hypocrit at all. I subscribe and it has nothing to do with being able to do more than F2P or preferred as i explained earlier. For which you replied with an insulting childish answer. just because a game has a sub , F2P and preferred system doesn't make the subbed player calling something P2W a hypocrit but i guess you already know that and are just having a laugh on the forums. I won't use the "T" word but it sure seems like it. Good day.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
'Ah you think micro transactions are your ally ? The DLC betrays you because it belongs to me , when your home world is monetized , you have my permission to buy'.
"Oh goody. Lord Douchebag McFuzzlebunny can now be related to me if he see's my legacy name and decides he likes it." quote from Selvec 09/06/12

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:12 PM | #755
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
Not at all. That cannot be inferred from anything I have said. I have said only that the hypocrits are those who are opposed to this thing they call "pay to win" which as they define it includes paying for conveniences and means of circumvention *if* they also happen to be subscribers.
In this case it is NOT hypocrisy to want to keep what you have always had and which you are still being charged. Paying a subscription can NEVER be pay to win by definition. Paying to win is getting something that is the same or more powerful than what can be attained in the game via some form of circumventing some rule mechanic. If anything subscribers are playing the game by the rules, as designed and as intended. Getting to continue to play by the rules for the price of a sub is NOT and advantage. Being able to get something in a store that I have to work for, spend time grinding, and killing Bosses for is pay to win, and entitled and in the end will bring a rapid decline to the caliber of players that play a game.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:17 PM | #756
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Paying a subscription can NEVER be pay to win by definition.
This is where we will have to agree to disagree, which is cool. I simply think that as they themselves have defined it, the anti-P2W people are engaging in functionally identical behavior when they pay their money to EA. The reason I am saying that, and why I'm posting in this thread at all, is because I hope that their opinions don't influence Bioware to restrict what they put in the cartel market. I think that a wide variety of stuff should be available, with the exception of PVP gear and possibly the highest tier PVE gear.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
12.14.2012 , 04:21 PM | #757
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Paying a subscription can NEVER be pay to win by definition.
Planetside 2 comes to mind.
Darasuum kote ner vode!
Darasuum kote Mando'ade!

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 04:23 PM | #758
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
This is where we will have to agree to disagree, which is cool. I simply think that as they themselves have defined it, the anti-P2W people are engaging in functionally identical behavior when they pay their money to EA. The reason i am saying that, and why I'm posting in this thread at all, is because I hope that their opinions don't influence Bioware to restrict what they put in the cartel market. I think that a wide variety of stuff should be available, with the exception PVP gear and possibly the highest tier PVE gear.
I have already told you the definition of P2win. I have already detailed ad nausem what it means to be a subscriber. Again you are being obtuse. The CC store should NEVER have anything in it that is AS GOOD AS or BETTER than what can be obtained in the game. I swear I wish EA would make special servers for people that think as you do and just give you everything you want at character creation and give each of you "I win" macros that you can fire off at each other and have an rng determin who wins. The rest of us want to earn our battle wounds and our rewards and have fun WORKING for what we achieve. That is why people play games for competition. What you propose makes it so anyone can compete WITHOUT having to put in the effort and gain the skill and knowledge to do so. What YOU are proposing is PAY TO WIN. Yes you ARE QQing by definition.

mothear's Avatar


mothear
12.14.2012 , 04:25 PM | #759
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
QQ means to complain. And it yes, you are or at least it seems as much. There is no hypocrisy on the part of subscribers. There can't be. We came first. The game was designed to be played in a subscription model. We are getting NOTHING by EAware going F2P. If anything EAware's approach is that we should feel greatful we get to keep the features we have; the alternative is to be penalized via the F2P model. Think about that a moment. What you are saying is that because you don't WANT TO play for a subscription that we the subscribers should be penalized like you are. That is envy. Not only are you jealous but you don't want others to have the advantages you don't have. But, they AREN'T advantages. They represent the NORM. It is not hypocrisy for subscribers to want to keep the features that they have been paying for ALL ALONG. It is the hights of selfishness and envy to say as you say because you don't want or can't pay a subscription. You are being calumnious to subscribers claiming the same to by steeped in hypocrisy. If anything it is you who are in the end a hypocrit.
Nothing that you have said there is in his post. All he is saying is that by paying a sub you (the royal you) should not equate P2W as something that circumvents a grind because by subscribing you are doing just that. In all definitions of the word that is hypocrisy.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 04:25 PM | #760
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
I have already told you the definition of P2win.
Please don't be offended by this, but I do not think you are the authority empowered to define what is and is not P2W. As I have said, I am basing my accusation of hypocrisy on definitions that the anti-P2W bloc have used earlier in this thread.