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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 03:20 PM | #741
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
The current state of the game with respect to P2W is what is being debated. What came before or may come in the future is not relevant. It makes sense that subscription is what EA would prefer, because they want to collect the 'pay' part of P2W.
But, what you are QQing about is not in line with the content you are using to base your argument. The restrictions in no way restrict one from doing the content that is given away for free. Nothing that is restricted is NEEDED to go from level 1 to 50. If there were restrictions that completely blocked one from going from level 1 to 50 and the content from level 1 to 50 were still given away for free, I might agree with you. But, in reality it's not this way. A Freeple has everything he needs to get from level 1 to 50 unencumbered. If you are QQing because you want to play the end game for free, I have no sympathies for you. I think the restrictions should be even MORE restrictive for people that want to milk the end game for free.

Projawa's Avatar


Projawa
12.14.2012 , 03:27 PM | #742
In a way, the game was already pay to win before the space items were put on the market:

My colleague has spent hundreds of dollars on cartel coins because he likes buying cartel packs. He keeps a few of the items he gets but he posts most of the items on the GTN. He's made about 20million credits from this. I pointed out to him that he could take that 20mllion credits and buy lvl63 mods (or the mats for crafting those mods) and become almost fully geared for the hardest PVE content from scratch in a few hours.

Summary: atm the game already contains a pathway from real hard cash to best in slot gear.

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 03:31 PM | #743
Quote: Originally Posted by Projawa View Post
In a way, the game was already pay to win before the space items were put on the market:

My colleague has spent hundreds of dollars on cartel coins because he likes buying cartel packs. He keeps a few of the items he gets but he posts most of the items on the GTN. He's made about 20million credits from this. I pointed out to him that he could take that 20mllion credits and buy lvl63 mods (or the mats for crafting those mods) and become almost fully geared for the hardest PVE content from scratch in a few hours.

Summary: atm the game already contains a pathway from real hard cash to best in slot gear
Completely agree. There was a thread on this and the long term effects on the SWTOR economy.

Projawa's Avatar


Projawa
12.14.2012 , 03:36 PM | #744
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Completely agree. There was a thread on this and the long term effects on the SWTOR economy.
Yes, is the thread still there? I seem to recall it was deleted, or maybe it was just my post within it that was deleted.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 03:42 PM | #745
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
But, what you are QQing about is not in line with the content you are using to base your argument. The restrictions in no way restrict one from doing the content that is given away for free. Nothing that is restricted is NEEDED to go from level 1 to 50. If there were restrictions that completely blocked one from going from level 1 to 50 and the content from level 1 to 50 were still given away for free, I might agree with you. But, in reality it's not this way. A Freeple has everything he needs to get from level 1 to 50 unencumbered. If you are QQing because you want to play the end game for free, I have no sympathies for you. I think the restrictions should be even MORE restrictive for people that want to milk the end game for free.
First, i don't know what QQ means but I don't think I am doing it. I am not complaining about anything, simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are shouting about the evil's of F2P, because I would prefer that their opinions not influence the game.

Second, you have misread or misunderstood what I have said. F2P represents the core game precisely because you can play from the beginning to the end. Therefore, paying the subscription fee to gain conveniences and means of circumvention is P2W under the definitions that have been proposed here.

Finally, I am a subscriber, and a user of the cash store. Accusing me of wanting to play the end game for free is incorrect and cannot be inferred from anything I have said.

BadOrb's Avatar


BadOrb
12.14.2012 , 03:42 PM | #746
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
I love this thread!

But...

It is clear from what has been said that anyone who subscribes to the game, even if they don't buy anything from the cartel shop, is paying to win. All of the subscriber benefits are unnecessary to get to level 50, therefore they are all convenience items to circumvent various challenges of the "real" game (the F2P game) such as limited hotbars, not being able to equip artifact level gear (a terrible crutch for those who can't play the game anyway), etc.

So, everyone who is bemoaning pay to win but is a subscriber is a hypocrit.
Wow you are ever so misguided , You are totally wrong , I subbed before the change in model and I can not even go F2P or preferred as I would lose the use of my many characters , for which i play on a lot. The F2P and preferred models are just dampened down versions of the normal subbed game. Full ( insert a word involving a red liquid ) stop.

I will still stayed subbed as if I didn't I would lose the ability to play the game as I did before. Granted I do get some CC's per month , but as it happens I have to save up those for 4 of my character slots and possibly makeb. So in actual fact I'm worse off now and I lost a level 18 legacy server in the process. So please don't make me laugh.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
'Ah you think micro transactions are your ally ? The DLC betrays you because it belongs to me , when your home world is monetized , you have my permission to buy'.
"Oh goody. Lord Douchebag McFuzzlebunny can now be related to me if he see's my legacy name and decides he likes it." quote from Selvec 09/06/12

Urael's Avatar


Urael
12.14.2012 , 03:51 PM | #747
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
First, i don't know what QQ means but I don't think I am doing it. I am not complaining about anything, simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are shouting about the evil's of F2P, because I would prefer that their opinions not influence the game.

Second, you have misread or misunderstood what I have said. F2P represents the core game precisely because you can play from the beginning to the end. Therefore, paying the subscription fee to gain conveniences and means of circumvention is P2W under the definitions that have been proposed here.

Finally, I am a subscriber, and a user of the cash store. Accusing me of wanting to play the end game for free is incorrect and cannot be inferred from anything I have said.
QQ means to complain. And it yes, you are or at least it seems as much. There is no hypocrisy on the part of subscribers. There can't be. We came first. The game was designed to be played in a subscription model. We are getting NOTHING by EAware going F2P. If anything EAware's approach is that we should feel greatful we get to keep the features we have; the alternative is to be penalized via the F2P model. Think about that a moment. What you are saying is that because you don't WANT TO play for a subscription that we the subscribers should be penalized like you are. That is envy. Not only are you jealous but you don't want others to have the advantages you don't have. But, they AREN'T advantages. They represent the NORM. It is not hypocrisy for subscribers to want to keep the features that they have been paying for ALL ALONG. It is the hights of selfishness and envy to say as you say because you don't want or can't pay a subscription. You are being calumnious to subscribers claiming the same to by steeped in hypocrisy. If anything it is you who are in the end a hypocrit.

dpwms's Avatar


dpwms
12.14.2012 , 03:57 PM | #748
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
QQ means to complain. And it yes, you are or at least it seems as much. There is no hypocrisy on the part of subscribers. There can't be. We came first.
Again, I am not complaining simply pointing out some nasty hypocrisy.

I would like to clarify that I am not calling subscribers hypocrits. I am a subscriber and will remain so as long as it is an option. I also pay for CC, so accusing me of wanting something without paying for it is wrong and cannot be inferred from anything I have said. I am calling people who deride what they call "pay to win" while at the same time engaging in functionally equivalent behavior through the act of subscribing, hypocrits.

Edit: Also, this thread is fun.

BadOrb's Avatar


BadOrb
12.14.2012 , 04:02 PM | #749
Quote: Originally Posted by dpwms View Post
Again, I am not complaining simply pointing out some nasty hypocrisy.

I would like to clarify that I am not calling subscribers hypocrits. I am a subscriber. I am calling people who deride what they call "pay to win" while at the same time engaging in functionally equivalent behavior through the act of subscribing, hypocrits.

Edit: Also, this thread is fun.
You are wrong , but you have you opinion. This game is a subscribed game , therefore isn't P2W for subscribers. Not sure why we are talking to him anymore Urael.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
'Ah you think micro transactions are your ally ? The DLC betrays you because it belongs to me , when your home world is monetized , you have my permission to buy'.
"Oh goody. Lord Douchebag McFuzzlebunny can now be related to me if he see's my legacy name and decides he likes it." quote from Selvec 09/06/12

TheGauntman's Avatar


TheGauntman
12.14.2012 , 04:02 PM | #750
It is not pay to win, you are playing against yourself. And no one is affected by it. End of story.