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Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.14.2012 , 11:38 AM | #1
“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Final Round: Darth Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Welcome to the final instalment of the ‘Kaggath vs Series’. Over the past weeks I’ve been in pitting the power bases of iconic Star Wars characters against each other, many have fallen, and many have been rewarded with victory. But fear not, the Kaggath will return due to popular demand in the ‘Kaggath Tournament’! Stay tuned!

The last battle, Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow, was a victory for Sadow, who overran Kaan’s forces with an army of illusions. But onto the final round.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simply lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, a star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s just go over the ground rules again:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Vader, Thrawn, Darth Malgus. (Concerning the Dark Council, they are not excluded from Vitiate’s power base, but cannot engage in combat themselves only command others.)
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No immortality, when you’re dead, you’re dead!
  • No superweapons, i.e. Death Star, Eclipse, Force storms, Mekhis’s superweapons, Foundry. (the Executor and the Ascendant Spear are not classed as superweapons – and the Spear is operating at full capacity)
  • Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.

So, the combatants: Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith lord in galactic history, a manipulative, machiavellian megalomaniac. The Sith Emperor, an absolute master of Sith magic, cunning, patient and devoid of any emotion or empathy. He feared only death.

Both combatants ruled over vast and sinister empires. Sidious commanded the Galactic Empire and its infamous armies. And the Sith Emperor led innumerable servants of the dark side and his own military power. But when these forces collide, who will emerge victorious?

Let the Kaggath begin!

Victor: Sith Emperor

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.14.2012 , 12:17 PM | #2
This will be good, but I have a quick question.

Does Sidious have any military commanders at his disposal? Tarkin? Veers? Piett?
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Losh's Avatar


Losh
12.14.2012 , 12:42 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This will be good, but I have a quick question.

Does Sidious have any military commanders at his disposal? Tarkin? Veers? Piett?
I'd take Thrawn over any of your mentioned commanders.

In a one-on-one, I'd probably go with the Emperor to be honest. He's supposed to have taken the power of an entire planet into himself. Palpatine, as insanely powerful as he was, never did that.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.14.2012 , 12:58 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Losh View Post
I'd take Thrawn over any of your mentioned commanders.
I agree with Beni taking out Thrawn from this battle. If he was in it, the Sith Empire would be done for.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
12.14.2012 , 01:26 PM | #5
Galactic Empire would flatten the Sith Empire in any space engagements, it was revealed that at the height of their power there were 20,000 Imperial I class SDs out there, that isn't even counting the rest! Then you have an SSD for every sector.

Then you have the most powerful ship sqaudron of all time: Death Squadron, Vader's personal fleet of ships, led by the Executor SSD with six other SDs, like the Avenger, their combined power took out a fleet of 40, that's right 40 Rebel cruisers, including two Mon Calamari Star Dreadnoughts.

It seems using the information we have and simple maths, that there were around thirty Super Star Destroyers before the defeat of Endor.

The biggest game changer is the Empire's size, which also means a far far superior war industry churning out better ships at a faster rate than the Sith Empire could, add on top of that, the Battle Meditation that the Emperor used on a galactic scale and you have the Sith Empire losing battles left, right and centre.

Then you have an army of such a larger size than the Sith Empire, that it isn't even worth bothering to mention that the manpower pool goes in the Empire's favour.

The Intelligence branch of the GE is also much much better than the SE's.

So the GE has far more men, far more ships of better design, far better intelligence, better commanders overall, more space to not care about, more industry and the most powerful Sith Lord of all time influencing every battle.

Here is the one advantage the Sith Empire has: better ground troopers, by that I mean the Sith, with more powerful commanders, etc.... in the Sith Lords who would lead them.

Let's not even go there with a one-on-one battle, Sidious would school him in lightsaber combat, has the most powerful Force Lightning ever and can become the most powerful and devastating Sith being by an even higher degree than before if he does somehow die.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.14.2012 , 01:28 PM | #6
Well Sidious is canonically the best Sith ever so...
One-on-One Sidious > Vitiate

BUT this things obviously doesn't have to come down to a one-on-one. The next clear advantage that comes to mind is this: Vitiate has a LOT more Sith at his disposal then Sidious does.

At a glance the rest (when it comes to their empires) is all very simliar. I'll need to see some more points made before I can do much elaborating.

I think it'll be a close fight regardless, but I'll be rooting/arguing for Vitiate 'cause I'm a die hard OR man.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.14.2012 , 01:32 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This will be good, but I have a quick question.

Does Sidious have any military commanders at his disposal? Tarkin? Veers? Piett?
Yes, these characters are allowed - as are the Sith Empire's Moffs and military commanders e.g. VoidWolf

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.14.2012 , 01:35 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Galactic Empire would flatten the Sith Empire in any space engagements, it was revealed that at the height of their power there were 20,000 Imperial I class SDs out there, that isn't even counting the rest! Then you have an SSD for every sector.

Then you have the most powerful ship sqaudron of all time: Death Squadron, Vader's personal fleet of ships, led by the Executor SSD with six other SDs, like the Avenger, their combined power took out a fleet of 40, that's right 40 Rebel cruisers, including two Mon Calamari Star Dreadnoughts.

It seems using the information we have and simple maths, that there were around thirty Super Star Destroyers before the defeat of Endor.

The biggest game changer is the Empire's size, which also means a far far superior war industry churning out better ships at a faster rate than the Sith Empire could, add on top of that, the Battle Meditation that the Emperor used on a galactic scale and you have the Sith Empire losing battles left, right and centre.

Then you have an army of such a larger size than the Sith Empire, that it isn't even worth bothering to mention that the manpower pool goes in the Empire's favour.

The Intelligence branch of the GE is also much much better than the SE's.

So the GE has far more men, far more ships of better design, far better intelligence, better commanders overall, more space to not care about, more industry and the most powerful Sith Lord of all time influencing every battle.

Here is the one advantage the Sith Empire has: better ground troopers, by that I mean the Sith, with more powerful commanders, etc.... in the Sith Lords who would lead them.

Let's not even go there with a one-on-one battle, Sidious would school him in lightsaber combat, has the most powerful Force Lightning ever and can become the most powerful and devastating Sith being by an even higher degree than before if he does somehow die.
I don't mean to be snappish, but there seems to be a lot of speculation here due to not having info regarding the SE.

1. Sidious's ships get zero tech advantage per Kaggath rules. They only get to be better tech-wise if they were awesome in their time (they were awesome for their time, but so were the SE's ships)

2. GE's won't have more ships then the SE. The SE has been building for a thousand years I think? They're be making ships just as, if not faster, then the GE's ships.

I just can't think of anything that would suggest that Sidious's fleet would be bigger then Vitiate's. Heck, I would think Vitiate's fleet would be bigger since they'd been growing for a thousand years.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.14.2012 , 01:37 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes, these characters are allowed - as are the Sith Empire's Moffs and military commanders e.g. VoidWolf
Wait a second; isn't that against the Kaggath rules?

People like Revan weren't allowed generals like Saul Karath before. How come Sidious is getting his generals?

Losh's Avatar


Losh
12.14.2012 , 01:37 PM | #10
I totally agree that in a full scale battle of empires, the Galactic Empire would win. I just question whether Sidious could really be more powerful than a guy who consumed the power of all the individuals in his home planet (N-something?). Besides, lightsaber combat between two Sith Sorcerers (I think they'd both fall under that category) is pretty pointless. It'd be a contest of will and force power.