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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Zintiel's Avatar


Zintiel
12.13.2012 , 05:48 PM | #661
Quote:
Old complaints:
- Space is on rails
- Space is to easy
- There is no incentive to do space

New complaints:
- Space is too ha[r]d
- Space is P2W
- Space is on rails
There's really a huge disparity between the difficulty though. I think if you can't admit that you're just trolling.

These are also supposed to be daily quests. Daily quests that you do every day shouldn't be set to Nightmare Inferno difficulty.

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.13.2012 , 05:50 PM | #662
Here's something I've been mulling over the last couple of hours.

How about this:

1) The PvE gear is made available in the CM, but as empty adaptive gear - there are no stats on it to buy, it would be purely cosmetic and allow the player to insert their own mods as they level.

2) The PvE gear is made available in the CM with complete stats as a Legacy system unlock. The gear can only be used by level 50's only and only unlocked via the Legacy system after the player has completed the related FP/OP with at least one character on their account.

Both options could co-exist in the CM. Option One CM and allow for players to customize their toon cosmetically just like any other adaptive armor. Option Two allows the player to outfit alts without having to run the alt through the entire gear progression chain again, but simply play the FP/OPs that they like to play the most.

BJ
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Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
12.13.2012 , 05:54 PM | #663
Wow, that was a lot of pages. Being able to buy the Ship parts in Cartel Shop removed all the prestige about completing all space missions and having BiS space gear. BioWare really messed up here.

Zintiel's Avatar


Zintiel
12.13.2012 , 05:58 PM | #664
Quote: Originally Posted by Amantino View Post
Wow, that was a lot of pages. Being able to buy the Ship parts in Cartel Shop removed all the prestige about completing all space missions and having BiS space gear. BioWare really messed up here.
They said they're going to make the pieces much cheaper so everyone can have them. Of course... I actually bought them hoping they'd help me through the impossible missions and they didn't. If they make them cheap and easy to get I'm going to complain about getting ripped off for being tricked into buying them. So really it's no win for BW.

Quote:
Today , 07:54 PM | #666

TheIrage's Avatar


TheIrage
12.13.2012 , 05:58 PM | #665
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
Still not buying into this part of your argument. Note that your other points I agree on so this is not a personal attack.

There's a big difference between "significantly useful" and "required".

However it's decribed (I don't care to call it P2W either), forcing players to buy gear in advance of playing released content (in the Cartel Store, by grinding, or any other method) by purposely inserting a large gear gap is a perversion on how progression is supposed to work and is wrong ihmo.

If allowed to get away with this, EA may very well introduce "Super Duper Cartel Armor" with the Makeb expansion that will be best in game when that releases. Of course, they will make it possible (but prohibitingly painful) to grind for the same way these T7 parts are.
I think we may be on the same page actually . I believe there is a limit to how far is appropriate to drive sales of items through the Cartel Market. It varies from person to person as to what that limit is. Personally, my limit is around core progression ( PvP and PvE) and to what degree Cartel Market sales would appear to influence game design. It is a personal gauge, but somewhere around there is where I would say I had enough. Certainly, if I were a fan of space missions and felt they were a significant part of my SWTOR gaming, the introduction of purchasable T7 coupled with the level of difficulty ( I hear) of the new content would have rapidly driven me to unsubscribe.

From a business stand, BW also has to find what that limit is in terms of the revenue from purchases vs. the loss/fluctuation of subscriptions.

I personally think we have had P2W since 1.5, but prefer not even use that term since it is loose, derogatory, inflammatory and non conductive to dialog. To me it is all about a company shifting business models poking into costumers to see how far they can go and were to stand. Our wallets more than our direct feedback will be in the end ( my opinion) what drives where/how we end up.

solo-nite's Avatar


solo-nite
12.13.2012 , 05:58 PM | #666
Thank you for your feedback and I am glad something is being done about the grade 7 gear.

I agree with what someone said earlier this is not really pay to win more pay for gear as the missions are still tough even with grade 7 gear (I haven't got all G7 gear only offensive/defensive and 1 tactical item from daily comms).

Question though as I already bought some G7 bundles on cartel market as I found no other way to play the heroic space missions, will people get refund of cartel coins (in full or some), as I already purchased G7 gear on cartel market before this BW feedback was posted?
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.13.2012 , 06:00 PM | #667
Quote: Originally Posted by Zintiel View Post
There's really a huge disparity between the difficulty though. I think if you can't admit that you're just trolling.

These are also supposed to be daily quests. Daily quests that you do every day shouldn't be set to Nightmare Inferno difficulty.
These are meant to be tough space missions to test more advanced players and have a weekly mission tied to them as an incentive to complete them. They are not meant to be dailies, they in the same league as Ops or HM FPs. I know they're harder, I believe the word I used was "BRUTAL" and I love them. It actually feels awesome when you down one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Amantino View Post
Wow, that was a lot of pages. Being able to buy the Ship parts in Cartel Shop removed all the prestige about completing all space missions and having BiS space gear. BioWare really messed up here.
What prestige? You can't show it off, you can't inspect people's ships and it makes no cosmetic difference on anything. You can feel good about getting it, but if thats you motivation just earn them instead of buying them. I get my sense of accomplishment from finishing the missions (even in PvE), the gear is just a means to an end for me.
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Slipfeed's Avatar


Slipfeed
12.13.2012 , 06:16 PM | #668
I paid real money for a speeder unlock that said it would apply to all characters on the account in the tooltip.

It was a case of false advertising.

After I was duped and lied to, they did fix the tootip.

And I never got my cartel coins back.

If they never made me whole again on a transaction of actual real cash that they took in exchange for a product they never really provided, how do you think your chances look?

TheIrage's Avatar


TheIrage
12.13.2012 , 06:22 PM | #669
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Here's something I've been mulling over the last couple of hours.

How about this:

1) The PvE gear is made available in the CM, but as empty adaptive gear - there are no stats on it to buy, it would be purely cosmetic and allow the player to insert their own mods as they level.

2) The PvE gear is made available in the CM with complete stats as a Legacy system unlock. The gear can only be used by level 50's only and only unlocked via the Legacy system after the player has completed the related FP/OP with at least one character on their account.

Both options could co-exist in the CM. Option One CM and allow for players to customize their toon cosmetically just like any other adaptive armor. Option Two allows the player to outfit alts without having to run the alt through the entire gear progression chain again, but simply play the FP/OPs that they like to play the most.

BJ
This to me is thinking on the right direction. I may not agree with everything you write, but I can sink my teeth on this one.

1) I don't see anything wrong with it other than perhaps diluting some of the achievement of obtaining new gear. I would add some sort of legacy unlock ( such as at least one character 50 has completed the operation/boss where such item is normally obtained) and/or a time gap ( only available X weeks after the original item was released).

2) Personally, this may be a tad far but still on the right direction. I would add (my opinion) a reasonable time gap, some sort of a quota/quantity limit, and maybe ( subject to debate) a reasonably high cost.

Again, great thoughts though.

Clevelandboy's Avatar


Clevelandboy
12.13.2012 , 06:24 PM | #670
[QUOTE=grallmate;5575247]These are meant to be tough space missions to test more advanced players and have a weekly mission tied to them as an incentive to complete them. They are not meant to be dailies, they in the same league as Ops or HM FPs. I know they're harder, I believe the word I used was "BRUTAL" and I love them. It actually feels awesome when you down one."

They are "Brutal" Spent 3 hours last night and still have not managed to down one. But I have got closer to doing it and not mad at all love the challenge.