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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

recsa's Avatar


recsa
12.13.2012 , 12:46 PM | #571
I just ... well .... PANIC would be a fitting word.

Dev reply regarding Grade 7 (BiS) parts on Cartel Market:
Quote: Originally Posted by Damion Schubert
It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.
Before F2P launch we were told, market would never have P2W items, but from this reply i understand they want market to be "as efficient or effective" as end game raiding or as ranked wz's.

Please clarify it, is this the future of SWTOR? Market will be as efficient as end game raiding in order to get BiS gear?
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Beslley's Avatar


Beslley
12.13.2012 , 12:47 PM | #572
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelrail View Post
^This a thousand times.

Let us know if this P2W crap is the way you are going forward so I can unsub and go play something else. Your greedy asses will loose a subscriber and a cartel shop customer for cheapening the game. There is absolutely NO reason to put end game gear (either player, companion or ship) in the cartel market, none at all.

IT IS P2W, the exact same thing you said will not be done.
Couldn't have said it better.
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Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.13.2012 , 12:47 PM | #573
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
There's been a dev post; time to focus on solutions now.
Yeah, and I'll reiterate mine:
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
You cheapened the integrity of the market once you started putting top tier gear (of any kind) for sale on the Cartel Market.

That is the fundamental problem here. If you guys want to start selling more top-tier gear on the Market... and I don't care what the cost is... if you want to sell ANY top-tier gear on the Market on a go-forward basis, just come out and say it so that I can unsub because that isn't the MMO I signed up for.

ShiningKnights's Avatar


ShiningKnights
12.13.2012 , 12:50 PM | #574
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.
The way to properly interpret this is: "Bummer, we tried to extract more $ from our customers, but we got our hand slapped in the process since they're smarter than we had thought...guess we have to change this now."

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.13.2012 , 12:51 PM | #575
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBuckets View Post
One possible solution out of this hole could be the following:
1. Lower material cost of the crafted upgrades.
2. Buff the non-Cartel Market pieces a bit to be better than those in the Cartel Market. It does not need to be a huge bump.
3. Learn from this situation in the future.

If all we get is #3, I'm content.
Quote: Originally Posted by DAMossimo View Post
My preference would be #1. This would soothe the crafters plight as well.

#2 seems like a good idea but I fear the implementation would be complicated and require too much time to "fix" this in a timely manner.

And, I would be happy with #3 as well if that's all we got.
I think #1 would be the best solution. The real inequity to begin with the the grind itself to get the parts in game. If it was a purely cosmetic grind (such as GW2's Legendaries), it would be one thing, but since this is a required grind (gear progression/treadmill) to enable a better chance of success, then they need to look at reducing the cost and time grind. I would also like to see them raise the price of the gear packs in the store as well. To me, the current price (@$10 US) is way to cheap for the type of gear it is. It should be a minimum of $15, imo.

Agreed that #2 is probably impractical at this point.

#3 - I think it may be a forgone conclusion that they have. We saw it with the F2P restrictions on the PTS, so I think it also holds here.

BJ
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Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
12.13.2012 , 12:54 PM | #576
Quote: Originally Posted by ShiningKnights View Post
The way to properly interpret this is: "Bummer, we tried to extract more $ from our customers, but we got our hand slapped in the process since they're smarter than we had thought...guess we have to change this now."
You do realize that empirically there's reason to believe that if TOR went full p2win, they'd end up positive because of the additional revenue from such a system versus the number of people that get upset and leave?

If they decided "To hell with it, screw consumer opinion, as much money as possible!" true across the board p2win would be their best option. This thread(which is largely people just debating "What is p2win" from well under a hundred people) is hardly a consumer base outcry substantial enough to warrant a change in direction should they actually be intending to go true p2win.
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dscount's Avatar


dscount
12.13.2012 , 01:02 PM | #577
KUDOS!

I'm glad to see that our BIOWARE team is communicating with everyone and looking into the solution.

The internal grind for Fleet Comm's is way out in left field with reality. Using a lot of the same high end materials for PVE gear might have been a bad idea.

Remove all the Molecular Stabilizers from the Schematics and cut the Cartel Coin prices by about 50% and you might be right on track.

OR.. every SUB gets all of the Space Upgrades 7 for FREE. (I'll be checking the mail soon) THAT would have been the right approach.
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Elear's Avatar


Elear
12.13.2012 , 01:07 PM | #578
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
[I]Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.
Wait, so how exactly monetizing at SWTOR works? Guy in charge of it just looks at all avaible stuff, decides "Oh, this would surely sell great in shop! Since players can get it by other means let's slap low price there, and let moeny flow in." and nobody nowhere even checks it, pretty much allowing such cases like this one to happen?

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
12.13.2012 , 01:14 PM | #579
I think it's obvious they made a mistake. There will be some action. I think we can go on with our lives now.
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Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.13.2012 , 01:14 PM | #580
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post
Hi everyone,

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.


Thank you for your patience.
That is NOT AT ALL reassuring...That makes it sound like the cartel market is going to start becoming a way to get actual gear that matters. I am EXTREMELY troubled by this comment and I hope you will clarify.
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