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Vanguard - Hard Mode Stats PLEASE HELP!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Vanguard - Hard Mode Stats PLEASE HELP!

Olostur's Avatar


Olostur
12.12.2012 , 08:38 PM | #21
Quote:
Just because i chose the numbers, doesn't make your calculations right. The point of choosing the numbers was to do simple division and find how much each point was worth at that level. Guess you weren't even up to that task
It was your decision to use uneven numbers for each stat.

Quote:
I've progressed farther than EC HM guys...5/5 on TFB and 2/4 NM EC only because we haven't had the chance to do it. DPS is relevent because you had assumed I auto-attacked the entire fight. Optimization comes from not just optimizing a particular offensive ability
I didn't assume you auto-attacked the entire fight. I outlined an extreme edge case to make my argument as clear as possible. It obviously wasn't clear enough for you to understand though. The point is that you can keep your ammo up at any regen level. It just changes DPS. You also clearly missed the point about optimization. This has turned into a debate about balancing trivial changes to survivability against trivial changes to DPS.

Quote:
[COLOR="Dark Red"]Only a moron thinks caps = anger[/COLOR]
Call me a moron and I'll call you angry

Quote:
EC HM did require optimization when everyone was wearing rakata gear with no augments. Maybe you don't remember those days
Ok, so EC HM required optimization for you back then. It didn't really require much for us. What inference can be drawn from that....

On another note, thank you for finally posting your stats. Now here's something rather funny: your stats are closer to Justcae's than they are to the high defense build that I've been arguing against! The truth of the matter is that it is laughable to debate at this length over such a difference. Of course, I had no idea since only you knew your stats. If you really get this bent about ~13% vs ~16% defense, then I fear for you. You are comparing two different amounts of defense (~15 vs ~16) that hadn't even been brought up in the thread. Were the voices in your head so bothersome to you that you had to start debating your own two numbers that hadn't even been discussed?

Your build is good. So is Justcae's. Did you somehow miss the fact that the high-defense AMR profile from earlier had 22% defense? That is what I find somewhat objectionable.
~ Darth Decimal ~

Thorriin's Avatar


Thorriin
12.12.2012 , 08:56 PM | #22
It's hilarious that you were carrying on an internal debate over 15 vs 16 when everyone else was debating 14 vs 22.....

That really just happened
Never Tell Us the Odds
Thorriin -- Scoundrel
Daño -- Guardian
The Bastion US PvP

Halirond's Avatar


Halirond
12.12.2012 , 08:56 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by thorriin View Post
it's hilarious that you were carrying on an internal debate over 15 vs 16 when everyone else was debating 14 vs 22.....

That really just happened
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Riivan's Avatar


Riivan
12.12.2012 , 09:31 PM | #24

Justcae's Avatar


Justcae
12.12.2012 , 10:20 PM | #25
Not going to bother with quotes throughout this so just bear with me. It's been a long day.

1) Original post stated that you do in fact gain more avoidance by raising your defense, I found the balance to be less than the 20% for personal build reasons, and outlined what I was seeing in my own experience.

2) The original rebuttal used numbers that were in point of fact a lie. Lies by their very nature mislead people. As this was a "Help me" thread, it was a stupid post. Clearly 15/60/60, would have less mitigation than 20/59/59. They however are not two sets with the same ability points. Thus misleading, and just a wrong statement in general.

3) Any build wherein you are around 15/60/60 plus or minus a few percent either way you are using the balanced defense build. My defense is a percent and a half lower because I carry 2.5k more health due to Kephess burst in NiM. However my build is still in the "Balanced" category. Balanced being "I didn't put mitigation before all else". Your posts argued against the balanced viewpoint, yet in your own raiding experience you use it. Slightly perplexing.

4) When you do minor tweaks to the balanced build, the differing results are in themselves, minor. Yay! Logic.

5) All the in depth analysis of Def vs S/A by percentages are off as well. No one is taking into account the 8% stack, or if you are using it the Proc relic the numbers narrow further. Strictly a logical observation, no need to get number heavy.

6) I reaffirm my statement that a balanced build that favours S/A over Defense stacking is a great playstyle and one that I've used effectively in the game. One that I would absolutely, and do recommend to Vanguards looking to progress through content.

If you cannot follow the above points and their supporting points I cannot help you, nor do I have the ability to convince you of any change in your opinion. I believe I hear drunk toddlers in a Dryer somewhere, I'll leave it at that.

MattFrontino's Avatar


MattFrontino
12.12.2012 , 11:22 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Olostur View Post

On another note, thank you for finally posting your stats. Now here's something rather funny: your stats are closer to Justcae's than they are to the high defense build that I've been arguing against! The truth of the matter is that it is laughable to debate at this length over such a difference. Of course, I had no idea since only you knew your stats. If you really get this bent about ~13% vs ~16% defense, then I fear for you. You are comparing two different amounts of defense (~15 vs ~16) that hadn't even been brought up in the thread. Were the voices in your head so bothersome to you that you had to start debating your own two numbers that hadn't even been discussed?

Your build is good. So is Justcae's. Did you somehow miss the fact that the high-defense AMR profile from earlier had 22% defense? That is what I find somewhat objectionable.
I used my lower stats gear to mimic what you use....My gear is fine I'm not worried about that
EDIT: Because that armor has more absorb/shield as I have modded it myself. /Sigh this guy is so ignorant

All you do is talk about how I don't understand. But obviously I put out the numbers you asked for. And you still act like a d*ck and try to put me down with personal attacks.

Regardless, anyone who could actually benefit from this, if you are sitting at 15/60/60, take more defense. The rest of these idiots are just trolling at this point
Frontino - Vanguard
<Final Chapter>

Olostur's Avatar


Olostur
12.12.2012 , 11:52 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
I used my lower stats gear to mimic what you use....My gear is fine I'm not worried about that

All you do is talk about how I don't understand. But obviously I put out the numbers you asked for. And you still act like a d*ck and try to put me down with personal attacks.

Regardless, anyone who could actually benefit from this, if you are sitting at 15/60/60, take more defense.
You put out the numbers that I asked for, but they're not your real numbers? Ok...in any case, this thread is informative enough despite your repeated dithering. There's no need to continue further. There's a lot of good information put out above and below your posts which, lacking as they are in logic are easy enough to ignore. I think we're done here.
~ Darth Decimal ~

Justcae's Avatar


Justcae
12.12.2012 , 11:53 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
I used my lower stats gear to mimic what you use....My gear is fine I'm not worried about that
Almost no difference between Campaign and Dread Guard.

Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
Regardless, anyone who could actually benefit from this, if you are sitting at 15/60/60, take more defense.
Don't. See above.

RhinoUF's Avatar


RhinoUF
12.13.2012 , 12:45 PM | #29
Wanted to pop back in and say thanks to all who posted. Even though tempers flared and feelings may have gotten hurt. TONS of good info was presented. I personally feel like I know the directions to take now as I progress into Nightmare mode.

Quick final question. SR vs. Absorb has been stated to be optimal at the same percentages (60/60, 59/59, etc). Would the shield being a proc and the absorb being in relation only if the proc happens mean I should probably go a bit higher with the SR (also we have the ion boost of 4%).

After carefully weighing both side I have optimized into the following Def: 18% SR 59% Absorb 58%. Tanked a bit last night and felt VERY "tanky".

Thanks again for all the great posts.

Mozivicus's Avatar


Mozivicus
12.14.2012 , 04:44 PM | #30
I can attest that Rhino was , indeed, a tankier tank after the adjustments made due to posts here. Thanks for affirming my guild tank's thought on mitigation distribution for his gear. W00t