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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.12.2012 , 04:35 PM | #451
Quote: Originally Posted by Tito_O View Post
No.

You can also buy them from the Special-Space-Items-vendor (forgot his real name ), for Credits/DaylieComms/FleetComms
Actually I've only found 8 items so far to buy out of 9. I looked for the EMP generator on the fleet and mission support vendors but didn't find it on either. Found everything else (or in some cases crafting schematics) but not the EMP.

Am I correct to say that one of the new spaceship upgrades is cartel market exclusive?
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 04:53 PM | #452
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Actually I've only found 8 items so far to buy out of 9. I looked for the EMP generator on the fleet and mission support vendors but didn't find it on either. Found everything else (or in some cases crafting schematics) but not the EMP.

Am I correct to say that one of the new spaceship upgrades is cartel market exclusive?
No - it is available in game:
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/20/swtor-pa...pace-missions/
(thanks Jacen)

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
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BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 04:54 PM | #453
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkoJinn View Post
To me this is not about these space missions in specific but the direction that Bioware seems to be taking. The game world, FOR ME, is a place where I should have the exact same chance at success as everyone else who plays it. Now obviously those who invest more time would reach the end goal faster than those who don't. That part is OK.

However creating "shortcuts" to achieve end game goals whatever they might be is not OK. First of all it defeats the purpose of the entire game. I mean it would be like if you started a single player at the very last boss in the game with best gear and everything. Defeat the boss... game over.

Second and more important, it kills any notion of achievement for those who actually did the grind to acquire this gear. At the very least Bioware should color code these items differently so if there is someone who acquired an armor set by grinding he/she and the others like him/her should be the only people that have say green version of that armor. All versions of the armor bought on cartel shop are some other color. Even better the cartel item should be slightly worse than the one acquired in the game. NOTHING in the cartel should be "best in game" items.
Quote: Originally Posted by ReviveR View Post
For me that would be almost as bad as the current implementation. This would still totally kill all the sense of progress and achievement (and challenge from earlier tiers).

Now if you could only buy / use the parts only after completing the earlier missions in combination to your suggestion might be a decent solution. Offering few of the items only as prize for completing certain missions and maybe one or two only with comms would be even better.

Somehow it seems Bioware completely forgot the basic rules of keeping a game interesting and are only going for a money grab. Buying better gear with grinded creds or a credit card is definitely the least interesting way to progress in a game.
For the previous question, in Ticklefist’s opinion, the current implementation of the CM smacks of P2W because the amount of grind required in game to obtain the ship upgrades is disproportionate to the amount of money it costs to buy them outright in the store (@$10 US) and skip the time and effort it takes to obtain them for free. Now, Tickle stated that if a full set of those parts could be gotten for 500,000 credits that would make selling them in the store more palatable. I specifically used the term Vendor in the question, but if this be the case, then wouldn’t the same hold true if buying them for a reasonable price on the GTN?

Now we are get to the crux of the second question I asked. Let’s take it for granted that we can all agree (despite what Anet says), that time played in a game roughly equates to some skill gained. In that a player who spends more time playing a game and learning the mechanics and content will become a better player (more skilled) than a player who does not put in as much time and effort.

Let’s also take it for granted that in a gear based game, skill is not the end all or be all of success, and that despite one’s skill, one also needs at least a minimal level of acceptable gear in order for survive long enough for his skills to bring him success. Now, I surmise from the posts I quoted above that there is more to the issue of selling end game gear in a cash shop, even if it is available for free in the game itself:
Epeen – the most dreaded word in gaming vernacular.

Again, I touched on my thoughts on the topic in the post that appears on page 35 of this thread. So let me ask this of Marko and Revive. Even if this gear is made available in the store, do you still not yet have the choice of how you wish to obtain it (via money, or via the traditional element of playing the required OP)? If you do indeed have that choice, and you enjoy playing the game and playing the Operations, why then would the fact that the armor appears in the cash shop affect your feeling of accomplishment in that you completed the content and reaped the reward in the manner that you enjoyed the most? Shouldn’t you be proud of your accomplishment regardless because you succeeded in performing it on your own terms?

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

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Felioats's Avatar


Felioats
12.12.2012 , 05:11 PM | #454
I was really excited about the new space missions/gear, and I tried to get as many commendations as I could for when 1.6 hit. Getting a full set was going to be a huge, satisfying accomplishment, making the new missions I'd be able to do all the more succulent.

All that has evaporated now. I'm not even interested in doing it anymore. It seems like they deliberately set the commendation costs and material requirements obscenely high to drive people to the cartel market.

It's also the reason for the catch-22 -- in order to complete the missions, you need the gear you can realistically only earn by doing them. Commendations from the other missions are too small, you'll go insane and it will take months or years.

Now, to me, doing it is not a big accomplishment, it's getting screwed by the scam. It's volunteering to be deliberately punished for not buying them with cartel coins.

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/HLoVF.png
>

Suzina's Avatar


Suzina
12.12.2012 , 05:29 PM | #455
I could not beat the space missions with my current gear. If I want best-in-slot gear for my ship, I need to pay cash. If I pay cash, I can get all the rewards such as black hole comms and stabalizers I need to get full dread-guard relic armor. You can use real-life cash to get the highest end-game armor in the game.

Some say this is technically *not* pay to win, because the items are available in-game through other means (such as beating the raid content to begin win, or farming fleet/daily comms to buy the space gear).

Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks.
Member of Bane Fleet

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 05:31 PM | #456
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzina View Post
Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks.
Why?

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
12.12.2012 , 05:42 PM | #457
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzina View Post
Some say this is technically *not* pay to win, because the items are available in-game through other means (such as beating the raid content to begin win, or farming fleet/daily comms to buy the space gear).

Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks.
This, absolutely.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.12.2012 , 05:45 PM | #458
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Why?

BJ
The reason is that many of us complaining don't like the idea that someone can simply cut the line we've been standing in just because they have money (or are willing to use that money). We feel it's a slimey move to basically sell a type of end game gear that should be worked for.

The extreme strawman is selling a maxed out character (legacy, valor, level, gear, etc.) from the Cartel Market. The problem is that this is a "tip of the iceberg, a possible start to a very bad trend." Many of us who are complaining feel they've already crossed the line.

I for one, won't mind if the line stopped HERE, but BW already crossed it. What's to stop them from moving it a little further... and then just a little further... until it gets to a point where people are buying endgame gear?

I'm going to reiterate: the selling of ship items that are top-tier doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that I feel like BW is sort of testing the water... which makes me feel like they may go down the dark path.

BJWyler's Avatar


BJWyler
12.12.2012 , 05:45 PM | #459
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
This, absolutely.
Why?

BJ
Primus and Alpha on the PTS/Swords of the Republic on The Shadowlands
Check out our own Character Page which includes music and Quest Lists

and our YouTube Channel for Gameplay footage and more

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
12.12.2012 , 05:50 PM | #460
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Why?

BJ
Your responses are most creative sir

However, a good part of the fun in MMOs is related to achievement. If you can shell out some cash and pluck the best gear in the game off the CM there's no achievement, ergo no fun. For some people this isn't an issue, but for any achievement-oriented player, this sucks.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box