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The force is becoming magic?


Andge's Avatar


Andge
12.12.2012 , 04:30 PM | #11
To be honest, I think the whole franchise is degenerating. There is something rotten about the whole EU which I fear will actually be the end of SW one day. It's degenerating into this commercial, superficial, extreme, every-thing-has-to-be-put-into-boxes-thing (and SWTOR hasn't made things better re the last boxes part). SW is moving further and further away from what made it SW in the first place. In a way, I wish they had just stopped with the original trilogy and a few NES games. On the other hand, I'm like the next fanboy who wants more more more until the abomination has become so big it tilts over and explodes.

LegendaryBlade's Avatar


LegendaryBlade
12.12.2012 , 04:46 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Lagboot View Post
Yes sir you nailed it.
All this kiddie EU and Cannon nonsense has perverted the true Star Wars universe. As I predicted, when all this first started, as George saw too, things would go sour with cartoons and stupid writers. He never accepted and or wanted the EU or Cannon.
Star Wars was Star Wars.
Episode 4, 5, & 6 and 1, 2, & 3.
As expected the EU started out mild and ok (even though I hate it), but pushed the "superhero" aspect on Force and Dark side users.

Yeah It has become "magic" and totally out of control. I truly believe the Force and or Dark side DOES have limitations and cannot be used to be "god" in that sense, as portrayed in the current EU.

I am an old school Star Wars fan I grew up with it. I was so happy George didn't go the route of Star Trek and make miniseries and crap TV shows about Star Wars early on. It preserved what the movies were and didn't pervert the universe. The cannon and EU did just that years later and is still doing it.

Really...A single being can crush a planet with the force ....BS. That is dumb. And like stated by someone else earlier. The force only works fully on the weak minded and un trained. AS in controlling their body, speech and such. Spewing lightening is a one or 2 off from force users in full force and isn't really a continual use ability. The main feature of a Jedi or Sith is their ability to use and wield a Saber in combat. Force push objects and people to gain an advantage.
Sometimes utilizing the force powers for an escape maneuver.
The whole perversion of the EU and Cannon is a disgrace to Star Wars and what it was.
To be fair, the EU isn't any worse than the prequels.
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Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
12.12.2012 , 05:22 PM | #13
Unfortunately, to make star wars fit into the mold of a stereotypical "WoW-esque" MMO, they were forced to give classes the ability to heal, even early on, and use force lightning, etc. They also had to make non force users equal to force users in strength, otherwise no one would play them - I mean who would play commando, gunslinger, sniper, etc, if any Jedi or Sith could walk up and slice them in half instantly? That is how it would be in the real Star Wars world - no regular person, no matter how smart, strong, fast, etc, would be any match for a true jedi master or sith lord.

As for force powers and such... Luke, by the time he is getting well on in age, like in his 60s and 70s and beyond, is extremely powerful, but the whole code of the jedi is that they only use the force as a last resort, when it is needed. That is what being light side jedi is all about, heeding the will of the force, becoming an instrument for the force to flow through. Sith are hampered by their emotions. The force cannot flow through them as freely because of their emotions and the way they view the force - as a tool or weapon to be used to achieve whatever ends they desire.

As for the emperor destroying a whole world.. well, he is kind of an exception to the rules I guess. Don't know how else to quantify that.
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Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.12.2012 , 05:37 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
What? Revan had no hand in rebuilding the Order, he killed Malak, got basically banished from the Jedi Order by the council and then left with Canderous, after this, the Sith Triumvirate attacks the Jedi Order and becomes one of the best Jedi killing Sith organisations of all time, then the Jedi Exile Meetra Surik comes along and wipes out the Sith Triumvirate, at the same time she simultaneously trains six Jedi Padawans who become the Disciples of Surik and they rebuild the Jedi Order, the Exile laid the foundations and then her students rebuilt the structure.

Oh and by the way, Revan didn't have students as a Jedi.
I dont think he meant Revan rebuild the jedi order. I think he meant to type "her" students.
Funny you think he means that... The only meaning i can take from what he wrote was that meetra didnt rebuild the order, that she went after Revan her students later on then rebuild the jedi order. Mical/ visas etc.
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Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
12.12.2012 , 06:52 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
I dont think he meant Revan rebuild the jedi order. I think he meant to type "her" students.
Funny you think he means that... The only meaning i can take from what he wrote was that meetra didnt rebuild the order, that she went after Revan her students later on then rebuild the jedi order. Mical/ visas etc.
Ah fair enough, I couldn't see much grammatical sense in his statement at all and took it to mean that.

StarChompo's Avatar


StarChompo
12.12.2012 , 08:28 PM | #16
I'd say it's a natural watering down that happens as more writers get their hands on an IP. A good example of this is the Conan IP. Robert E Howard's original stories used the supernatural (lost races, artifacts, beings from other planets, etc.) and lost technologies to make "magic".
Get a few more writers involved, and you have dudes throwing fireballs.

Red_Ripper's Avatar


Red_Ripper
12.13.2012 , 01:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by internaty View Post
This has bin on my mind for some time.
And i like some other people's thoughts on the mather.

It seem to be that in the extended universe the force is becoming more like magic(resurection, everlasting life, possesion etc)
While all nicly explained it does seem to move more and more away from all-binding energie and becoming more plot magic.

For example: the sith emperor,
He is able to jump bodies, kill a entire planet to become inmortal(my theory is that he is still mortal just got alot of life energie from drianing a planet of life and it will take several thousend years for him to die, unless he feeds on more(lets say a entire galaxie)) able to mind control strong willed people at ease.

Now i dont know about you but that sounds alot like necromancy to me.

To me what makes the force alot more interesting then magic is that it HAD rules.

It wasnt able to break the laws of nature just bend them.
Example: A force user might be able to force jump on a clif or the second floor but never on a entire mountian/building(something jaden korr keeps doing)
Or only mind trick the weak willed(not strong willed people)
Or how darth nillus was able to "feed" on a entire world(again necromancy:blood magic) yet befor the extended universe we need thing's like the death star to blow up a entire world(let me put it very clearly darth nillus was able to kill millions of lifeforms(plants animels people) in a single force attack and he wasnt even that strong in comparision to many other sith).

Is it just me seeing thing's that arent there.
Or is the force becoming magic?
Darth Nihilus was arguably the strongest Force user in Galactic History, however, his greatest strength was also his biggest weakness; his Hunger... His lust for Dark Side energy was insatiable and, at times, he would go through a sort of 'withdrawal,' had he not fed on Force Users enough [which was why the Exile was able to destroy him, Nihilus was weakened from not having fed on enough Force Users]

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.13.2012 , 03:00 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Ah fair enough, I couldn't see much grammatical sense in his statement at all and took it to mean that.
I know his grammar is lacking ^^ , but its what i could interpt from it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
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BladedDingo's Avatar


BladedDingo
12.13.2012 , 10:09 PM | #19
Anyone who thinks the force was never inteted to be magic, is kidding themselves.

Star Wars is a space opera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera), but if the setting were placed in a fantasy world, the force would be magic, oh wait. I can prove it.

If you've ever seen the movie Eragon (the movie, not the books, the movie more clearly shows how it copies the plot of star wars.) then you may have noticed something.
  • Guardians of peace are slaughtered by a power young upstart furthering their own cause - plumeting the properous kingdom into a brutal tyranical empire.
  • A group of rebels rise up against the evil king, but stay hidden and strike only in small hit and run attacks.
  • A powerful item or knowledge (the last free dragon egg in Eragon, and the droids with the deathstar knowledge in SW) is lost in an ambush.
  • A young farmer finds the item of importance and the secret leads them to an old hermit.
  • The old hermit reconizes the important item for what it is, the key to defeating the empire and the boy is clearly connected to the item.
  • The evil empire attacks the boys farm, killing his family and forcing the boy and the hermit to flee.
  • The hermit reveals he's the last of an ancient order, and the boy holds the key to the empire and begins to train the boy in the use of magic.
  • The boy and hermit discover a princess is trapped and attempt to free the said princess
  • In the process, the hermit dies before the the boys training is complete
  • The boy leads the princess to the hidden rebel base, where his new found powers aiding the rebellion help deliver a decisive blow to the enemies and the rebellion that was near defeat finds new life and slowly becomes a more powerful threat.

Everything fantasy is there, Swords, wizards, princesses, empires, magic, epic struggle of good vs evil.

Take star wars and drop it into ANY setting, medieval times, steam-punk, the future, at it's core the story of star wars is a marriage of fantasy and sci-fi and since it's fantasy, there HAS to be magic.

So really, anyone getting mad that the force is being "turned into" magic, is flat out wrong, it always was magic, and it always will be magic and more and more wizards will continue to appear in the EU and Luke will always be the grand wizard.

Hell, the Sith inquisitors have an advanced class called a sorcerer, there is a planet of force users known as the Witches of Dathromir