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Pay2Win Space Missions ???

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

utio's Avatar


utio
12.11.2012 , 10:25 AM | #101
I can't see how this is different to getting exp boosts, and no one caused a fuss about them. Both get you the end result quicker.
PROPER SPACE COMBAT PLEASE

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:26 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by darthldub View Post
Kinda like how they did the f2p model. You know, at first only f2p til lvl 15 to see how it goes, and then it became f2p the way it is now. Kinda funny that people would say that that wouldn't happen back then
Yeah it tends to go that way doesn't it.


Quote: Originally Posted by Vitellius View Post
So you mean time played? Which is my original point. I'm arguing it's not simply pay to win, but pay to win "faster" which isn't the same thing. In plausible? Why? Because it is contrary to your opinion. Ok....if you say so. The thing is, if we can't agree on a definition, then we will never have a resolution. We're all just spinning our wheels spouting our opinions.
Which is pure semantics.

If people could buy PvE raid gear that would still "just" be pay to win faster, so are you saying that also would not be P2W?
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:28 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by utio View Post
I can't see how this is different to getting exp boosts, and no one caused a fuss about them. Both get you the end result quicker.
It's not in the sense that those boost are also a form of P2W (as is Cartel gear for that matter).

However that stops a L50 for the ground game and isn't the ground endgame, where as this instance of P2W basically starts a L50 and is the space endgame (and actually contributes the ground end game a bit too).
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.11.2012 , 10:29 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowermanx View Post
If wiki want a good example of a strawman argument, I will point them at this post, I dont think anyone could do a better job.
If/when we ever see raid/pvp gear for sale in the store, Ill be right beside you.
You're absolutely right. My example hasn't happened and it's taken to the extreme. And I won't be unsubbing right now. If they did what I mentioned, you can sure bet that I would.

However, what they are doing here is unprecedented in this F2P model for ToR. So far everything you could buy was strictly cosmetic, right? Now you can buy something that's a stat upgrade to some feature in the game, correct?

You tell me, how did they not cross the line?

I'm still against this sort of behavior, but mostly on principal. If this was to spill over into other aspects of the game, eventually it would be enough.

Overall on my viewpoint: It's not enough to quit the game now, but why did BW/EA introduce anything that is in the P2W realm of behavior? If they go far enough though, I will be quitting this game solely on that change.

JonathanCP's Avatar


JonathanCP
12.11.2012 , 10:29 AM | #105
If you check my post history, you will find that I defend the dev's and this game a lot

But when I saw you could buy the spaceship upgrades through CC, my heart sank.

I was looking forward 1.6 for this precise reason: gear up my ship (as there's no other content for PvE'ers in 1.6)

Now, knowing that I could get out the credit card and get the upgrades, my motivation to grind the ship upgrades gets much, much weaker.

Bioware, you listened to your player base recently.

Please, this is a dangerous turn you are taking. Beware....

(also : Life day "event" = stuff to buy? -..... please. PLEASE!!!!!)
If your thread title is not a variation on "open letter... BIOWARE,... fail... NOW!", then you are a fanboy

pkimi's Avatar


pkimi
12.11.2012 , 10:33 AM | #106
im not normally a complainer, i have been subbed to this game since it was released, but after discovering that people can just buy the entire tier upgrades for the new space missions, i wanted to post my disappointment. Being a space part crafter and avid fan of the space missions, i am really disappointed that sure, i can pay what ever it is and get all the parts but where is the challenge. this game in my opinion had become pay to win and i am really disappointing that this is an option

agntt's Avatar


agntt
12.11.2012 , 10:34 AM | #107
Well, if you get 240 fleet comms from the new space missions, you can get grade 8 material crate every day.
Compared to old 18min, 40 comms VS 30min, 240 comms, difference is GIGANTIC.

So in other words you get 1-4 stabilizers(200-800k creds) every day and you can use those to obtain BIS gear.

The logic goes like this. You spend RL money to buy upgrades into Soloplayer minigame. Then you use the rewards from your solo minigame to get gear that is equal to currently hardest raid content. If this is not P2W, then i dont know what is.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
12.11.2012 , 10:37 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by agntt View Post
Well, if you get 240 fleet comms from the new space missions, you can get grade 8 material crate every day.
Compared to old 18min, 40 comms VS 30min, 240 comms, difference is GIGANTIC.

So in other words you get 1-4 stabilizers(200-800k creds) every day and you can use those to obtain BIS gear.

The logic goes like this. You spend RL money to buy upgrades into Soloplayer minigame. Then you use the rewards from your solo minigame to get gear that is equal to currently hardest raid content. If this is not P2W, then i dont know what is.
Exactly.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
12.11.2012 , 10:37 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by BJWyler View Post
Pride is one thing - that is not P2W. P2W is having a statistical advantage over another player when all else is equal between the two of you simply by buying better gear than the other player can get by playing the game. Since that is not the case with anything in the store up to this point, it is not P2W. Again, it is actually the opposite, because presumably, the player who plays the game to obtain the gear would become more skilled as a result, so they would in actuality have the statistical advantage over the player who simply bought the gear and did not put in the time to "earn" it.
BJ
Let's start by going on this extreme hypothetical:
Raid Group A refuses to buy any of the new raid gear and they spend time trying to kill the bosses, slowly farming the gear, and thus making the attempts on bosses further in easier to deal with.
Raid Group B buys all the new gear and begins to attempt the bosses.

Both raid groups will still have to deal with the mechanics, but Raid Group B does have a statistical advantage because they have better stats so the learning curve is lessoned.

SilentKitty's Avatar


SilentKitty
12.11.2012 , 10:40 AM | #110
Well yes, I do feel a bit sorry for the crafters. Hope that there will be a market for ship-parts anyways.