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Lost Island HM should have better loot.

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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.10.2012 , 02:45 PM | #311
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
If you're a healer
A lot of healers also don't realize that you can cleanse said incinerate DoT. Even if the tank misses the interrupt, you're going to do a *lot* better just cleansing the DoT rather than trying to heal through it, considering how hard it hits.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.10.2012 , 02:52 PM | #312
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
A lot of healers also don't realize that you can cleanse said incinerate DoT. Even if the tank misses the interrupt, you're going to do a *lot* better just cleansing the DoT rather than trying to heal through it, considering how hard it hits.
Yeppers. I remember one time healing HM LI and I cleansed missed incinerate off the tank. After the fight, he said, "No healer has ever done that for me before"

!

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.10.2012 , 05:20 PM | #313
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
No, the game should drop what is appropriate for the intended gear level that the content was designed for. The content was *designed* such that it can be completed by a group in Tionese if executed exactly as intended. The fact that most people *can't* execute the content exactly as intended (interrupting asap, killing adds asap, not standing in bad stuff, blowing CDs to survive burst damage phases) and have to overgear it because they've got poor execution has no bearing upon what the drops should be.
So the content is Tier 2, the bosses are all on the Tier 2 level, why shouldn't it drop better gear?

If only very few can do it with Tionese, then that means it should not, the game is for most of the people, not a few. Some people can do OPS boss with 4, does that mean those OPS should be 4 men FP? No. In WOW people can do Onyxia with blue gears, does that mean it should not drop T2? No.

Quote:
The difficulty of HM LI is completely separate from the gear requirements.
Not at all, the difficulty with Tionese and Columi and BH are not on the same level. Sav-Rak is much much easier with a Rakata or higher level healer, not to say Lorrick, with good gear he would go phase 2 before the 3rd kolto tank. Even Columi could bring him to the 5th, not to say Tionese.


Quote:
It requires a reasonably skilled *player* behind the keyboard, not just a keyboard smasher with a well geared character.
I don't think the majority are keyboard smasher, even if they are, the drop should balance for them since they are the ones who are giving Bioware most of the profit.


Quote:
Tweaking the gear rewards won't make people more likely to do it (most people will *still* wipe continually when they're first learning it while the people that already know it will still just laugh their way through), and it would only screw up the existing progression that's *already* been heavily compressed by the addition and prevalence of BH comms and is getting compressed even more with 1.6 providing full Tionese to every 50 immediately.
Yes it will, since they get good after 1 boss rather than need to beat all 3 to get something useful.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.10.2012 , 05:23 PM | #314
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
A lot of healers also don't realize that you can cleanse said incinerate DoT. Even if the tank misses the interrupt, you're going to do a *lot* better just cleansing the DoT rather than trying to heal through it, considering how hard it hits.
With Tionese gear, the healer need to do a lot of things such as

Get away from adds

Move from growing bubbles

Run away toward lava

It's not like they could just stand there and watch the tank all the way, and that's what made LR-5 difficult.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.10.2012 , 05:46 PM | #315
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
With Tionese gear, the healer need to do a lot of things such as

Get away from adds
Recommended solution: AOE taunt from tank

Move from growing bubbles
Recommended solution: Follow a set pattern and move the same positions as you move around the room.

Run away toward lava
Recommended solution: Find places as you move around where the lava doesn't appear and stand in them as you move around. This is primarly dependent upon following a set pattern as above.

It's not like they could just stand there and watch the tank all the way, and that's what made LR-5 difficult.
This is 100% correct. There are more things happening then standing in one place and watching the tank.
One of the more interesting things about LR-5, is that it requires the group of 4 to be in coordination.

If the group is uncoordinated, it results in wipes.

Some of the solutions I've mentioned above result in less damage being taken by the group, helping the group survive.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
...

I don't think the majority are keyboard smasher, even if they are, the drop should balance for them since they are the ones who are giving Bioware most of the profit.

...
I do understand your viewpoint, this is just where we differ.

The Tier 1 flashpoints and Tier 1 operations should be tuned to the majority. The Tier 2 flashpoints and Tier 2 operations should be tuned to the skilled players. This is just my opinion after all, but being that it is mine, I tend to like it.

The Tier 2 stuff can still be conquered by the majority, it just takes overgearing.

OR, the average player joins group of like-minded people to master end-game content. That is a common solution in mmos, after all.

OR OR, the average player decides "I want to be a better player", and reads strategies on how to improve their playstyle, gets advice from other players, etc.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.10.2012 , 05:50 PM | #316
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
One of the more interesting things about LR-5, is that it requires the group of 4 to be in coordination.

If the group is uncoordinated, it results in wipes.

Some of the solutions I've mentioned above result in less damage being taken by the group, helping the group survive.
I'm not saying it's impossible to avoid, just the healer and dps has to take care of a lot of stuff, so the healer might not be able to cleanse it right after.

Quote:
I do understand your viewpoint, this is just where we differ.

The Tier 1 flashpoints and Tier 1 operations should be tuned to the majority. The Tier 2 flashpoints and Tier 2 operations should be tuned to the skilled players. This is just my opinion after all, but being that it is mine, I tend to like it.

The Tier 2 stuff can still be conquered by the majority, it just takes overgearing.

OR, the average player joins group of like-minded people to master end-game content. That is a common solution in mmos, after all.

OR OR, the average player decides "I want to be a better player", and reads strategies on how to improve their playstyle, gets advice from other players, etc.
No, Tier 2 FP are just a higher level of Tier 1, and do it with columi, which are Tier 1's drops is not overgearing.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.10.2012 , 05:55 PM | #317
From what I experienced.

LR-5 is the least gear relied boss of the 3, but with better gear still allow people to make more mistakes and have a shorter fight.

Sav-Rak relies on healer unless others can avoid all the avoidable damage, Lorrick is DPS.

So as long as people know the boss mechanic, Rakata or higher Tier groups can smash it through unless they make some huge mistake such as get smashed by Sav-Rak, not turn Lorrick away from DPS/healer. Columi Groups have challenge but they can make a few small mistakes, take some avoidable damage and still get it done. Tionese has to do almost everything right otherwise-GG.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
12.10.2012 , 06:30 PM | #318
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
From what I experienced.

LR-5 is the least gear relied boss of the 3, but with better gear still allow people to make more mistakes and have a shorter fight.

Sav-Rak relies on healer unless others can avoid all the avoidable damage, Lorrick is DPS.

So as long as people know the boss mechanic, Rakata or higher Tier groups can smash it through unless they make some huge mistake such as get smashed by Sav-Rak, not turn Lorrick away from DPS/healer. Columi Groups have challenge but they can make a few small mistakes, take some avoidable damage and still get it done. Tionese has to do almost everything right otherwise-GG.
I agree with everything you've stated here 100%.
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
...

No, Tier 2 FP are just a higher level of Tier 1, and do it with columi, which are Tier 1's drops is not overgearing.
Perhaps this is where our opinion differs. Prior to Lost Island being introduced in 1.2, many players found the T1 HM FPs extremely easy and were asking for harder flashpoints. I have pugged (on 5 different level 50s) several hundred T1 flashpoints. Of these, the vast majority of the players I ran into could tackle all of this content.

This includes brand new players as well. There were many times I was with groups that said "I've never done this flashpoint before" and simple explanations in chat sufficed to tackle just about everything.

There were also groups that failed miserably. But in almost every case this was due to players not listening to advice, or making egregious mistakes (Guardian tank in Shien form, a healer only doing dps, nobody running out of Vokk's circles, etc). But this was (for me anyway) a minority.

There are few I've ever pugged with that found T1 flashpoints challenging.

Enter T2. Lost Island was created and added after the complaints of players bored with T1 flashpoints and finding no challenge. It's more than just a higher than T1. It's a significant increase in difficulty.

Because I've taken players who cannot finish HM LI, brought them into vent and turned them into a player who can (with no new gear), I keep insisting that it is a mechanics issue, not a gear issue. And I believe that the majority can learn these mechanics issues.

I wish this majority would reach for the solutions to becoming better, rather than reaching for solutions that don't require them to.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.10.2012 , 10:54 PM | #319
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
No, Tier 2 FP are just a higher level of Tier 1.
Sorry, but I'm really going to have to disagree here. Tier 2 FPs are a SEPERATE level than Tier 1.

We can debate whether it should drop more than 1 piece of Rakata all you want. But that it should be considered a seperate Tier than HM Taral V, Maestrom Prison and D7 isn't debatable. It's a seperate Tier.

Now maybe it should drop 2 pieces of Rakata instead of 1, but if they changed it to drop more Rakata I'd expect them to un-nerf the bosses.
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Malkavier's Avatar


Malkavier
12.11.2012 , 05:20 AM | #320
I don't think it should drop any more than 1, but that 1 should have more variety, to give people more incentive to run it more than once per week.

Leave the Rakata only on Lorrick during a HM run, but have it randomized between pieces and class types.

Having it only drop the chest piece, and knowing that 9 times out of 10, it's going to be what you already got last week when you ran it, is meh.
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