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Round 1: Asajj Ventress vs Bastila Shan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Round 1: Asajj Ventress vs Bastila Shan

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
09.15.2012 , 04:03 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.
Bastila has experience, Ventress has the experience of duelling some of the best ever and living.

Case closed.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.15.2012 , 05:44 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.
Bastila does have experience, but Ventress has faced some of the best ever. That's an inescapable fact that puts Ventress on top.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
09.15.2012 , 07:20 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Not being rude or anything, but what's your point here?
I'm just saying all these people saying Ventriss has little or no force abilities didn't see her in that fight, apparently.

She would rip Bastilla Goody-two-shoes apart.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
12.10.2012 , 05:27 AM | #34
There seems to be the idea here the the PT Jedi Order was somehow extremely powerful relative to the KotOR era Jedi/Sith.

While their knowledge of Force techniques was more developed, their knowledge of battle was laughable. Anakin and Obi-Wan had to learn the hard way how to fight wars, while Bastila Shan was trained into a Jedi Order that was fighting a war against a Sith army, one that had an extensive pedigree of experience fighting against Mandalorians and Jedi-led Republic troops. Revan's forces were well directed and formed around a core of battle hardened veterans from the Mandalorian Wars. Just to survive in the Jedi Civil War, Jedi would need to become experienced lightsaber duelists, and there is no crucible better than war.

At the time of the PT, the Jedi had experienced a thousand years of peace, without fighting against any large group of force and lightsaber wielding enemies. Their practical fighting skills were meager, at best. The real life historical examples of combat skills decaying during peacetime, only to be re-learned over the course of a war is enough to attest to this.

So, Ventress bested numerous Jedi who had no practical saber combat experience. Cute, she gets points for trying. Bastila had fought and killed Dark Jedi, Sith Warriors and countless experienced Sith Troopers. Contrary to what someone was saying earlier, it's not possible for Jedi to get stronger through peaceful meditation. They may find enlightenment, but not combat skills. Numerous Jedi became skilled warriors without falling to the Dark Side, and the only way to develop combat skills was... combat.

While Ventress may have been able to hold her own against Anakin, remember that he was still only barely a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars. He was still apprenticed to Obi-Wan when the war broke out, and was a complete rookie to saber combat during his first duel with Dooku. Likewise, Obi-Wan was the only living Jedi during the Pre-Clone Wars era to have fought a Sith, and his battle was very nearly a crushing defeat. In short, the Jedi that Ventress fought and killed were poor examples of martial prowess, and while Ventress is clearly a skilled fighter, I doubt she could hold her own against someone tempered in the battles of the Jedi Civil War, when lightsaber combat was not an art form, but a way of life for those fighting the war.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.10.2012 , 11:51 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
*snip*
Read this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=541525

Enlightened you will be.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
12.10.2012 , 02:42 PM | #36
While i do agree the PTO is generally better than any jedi order before it i dont think that it makes one overwhelmingly powerful just because they came from a future era. I find a few exceptions that could stand up to most of the jedi of the PTO (Exar Kun, Revan Reborn (not foundry Revan), Emperor Vitiate, Darth Nihilus, Marka Ragnos, (basically almost any ancient sith lord), I wouldnt put Satele Shan cause her feats arent as grand as those past names (she was a master and couldnt beat Darth Baras when he wasnt at the peak of his power but thats besides the point) that being said I think Ventress would win cause shes dueled some of the best jedi masters from the PTO and lived where u get Bastila whos only known duels she had were against Darth Malak, and an amnesiac Revan (whom she both lost to) both which couldnt light a candle to PTO masters im sorry Ventress wins in a not so close fight.

pbajnokl's Avatar


pbajnokl
12.10.2012 , 03:50 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.
You are absolutely right man! Not to mention that these "forms" are for to use the force easyer against your oponent, because the REAL masters (as Yoda) not use light saber forms, because the force guide his light saber. This was described well enough in the Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. That's why this Dark Jedi could defeat Lumia or Plo Koon... not like Obi-Wan ... and a little hard to see something like " Ventres" AND everyone in the prequel era could beat anyone... for example Exar Kun almost killed Luke and he is even older then Bastila, and Luke not in the Prequel Era. Pure Aurbere forget it every time that the Jedi Civil War or the Returned Sith Empire times the anchient times... and in these times were lost a lot of knowledge about the force, and yeah I know it because the Jedi, BUT the Jedi never used these knowledge!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.10.2012 , 04:00 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by pbajnokl View Post
Pure Aurbere forget it every time that the Jedi Civil War or the Returned Sith Empire times the anchient times... and in these times were lost a lot of knowledge about the force, and yeah I know it because the Jedi, BUT the Jedi never used these knowledge!
Because when knowledge is lost, no one will ever know of it again. /sarcasm

If you're going to attack me, try harder.

Edit: And I am quite pure. Thank you!
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

pbajnokl's Avatar


pbajnokl
12.10.2012 , 04:21 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Because when knowledge is lost, no one will ever know of it again. /sarcasm

If you're going to attack me, try harder.

Edit: And I am quite pure. Thank you!
Never wanted to attack someone too hard, I don't want to be banned. Btw I am want to reason with u not just attack like one without a brain.