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Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 02:47 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Unfortunately you are closer to the truth than many of these hopeful, sunshine pumper posts.

I expect they will do something like give JetBoost a 50% increase in movement speed for 2 sec and the removal of all movement restrictions when used. But since they really don't want to buff Mercs, they will also increase the energy cost of JetBoost to something like 35. That way they can nerf Merc damage output after JetBoost is used. That would fit in well with how BW views Mercs.
dont give them any ideas!!


i really dont know what to think. the numbers about playstyles that bioware has shown us recently and in the past show that the majority of players in the game participate in warzones. PvP is not the red-headed step child that some players would have the devs believe, and their "metrics" show that. but they continue to make changes (or dont make changes) that have significant negative effects on the PvP environment. which only further alienates their playerbase, drives away the high quality players (the min/maxers that post guides, frequent the forums, give advice, provide quality feedback, etc) that are the backbone of any MMO.

i just dont understand. with no class changes in 1.6, despite a new WZ (meaning a greater focus on PvP) the gross imbalances that exist in PvP will continue.

its mind bottling.

dejavy's Avatar


dejavy
12.09.2012 , 04:13 AM | #62
I say they'll give nothing coz i don't believe they realize the class needs something else rather than only escape ability. They nerfed our snare to 30%. After that i just don't believe they are able to GIVE anything. BW buffs only glowsticks and nerfs the rest. Amazing treatment!!! I wish i like jedi glowstickers but i don't. I love commando and not gonna change myself in it. I'd rather change the game.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 06:00 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by dejavy View Post
I'd rather change the game.
hax?

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 12:55 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Elyxin View Post
I like all of them, with the exception of Run and Gun. your comparisons to snipers don't hold water. having the ability to cast any 3 abilities instantly every 9 seconds is an immensely powerful tool...the only reason you don't' think so is because you like the class. one instant attack and some resource savings 30 seconds is not even close to 3 instant attacks every 9 seconds.

Snipers only have one instant attack off of their KB, and that in itself is very powerful. your asking for almost a non stop application of abilities that have cast times for a reason. A merc with that ability would be able to insta cast everything they have 3/4 of the time they are in melee range. And the dps increase in PvE would be class breaking.

the idea sounds great, but in real life application it would break the class. we have cast times for a reason. even just tracer missile 3x instant would be over powered. I know you don't think so but it really would. the damage of those abilities, no matter how you want to compare them, is based on a cast time. to remove the cast time means unbalance. they would have to reduce the damage on those abilities to compensate, which would force PvE (as well as PvP) mercs to fight in melee range to keep their DPS up with other classes, which kills the reason for having them as a ranged class in the first place.

I am all for having a low tier ability like the sniper that gives us ONE instant cast. punch, fire fusion missile. bam. or fire off Rapid scan. how about making it insta-cast and auto crit? Imagine being able to knock back an opponent, immobilize them for a few seconds, and dump an instant fusion missile that's auto crit (with full stack of tracer on them) that is a nice buff, and opens up other doors as well, and not OP.

But your other ideas look good. Run and gun just pushes it over the top too much. It's the right direction though! I like the idea....I think the reason snipers/slingers can do well in PvP is due to the options they have to push instants out....but the talents are spread out in different trees, so they're not all bunched together...and they're mechanics force them to be useable only over longer periods of time (30sec CD on Pulse, as an example....or requiring 6+ crits in a row to negate the CD on ambush, etc).

If we wanted the concept of "run and gun" as a class mechanic, we could have certain skills have special abilities when run and gun is triggered...and then have a few skills that trigger R&G (like rocket punch, kolto missle, thermal Detonater). examples of R&G effect would be like tracer would auto-stack 5 heat signatures with R&G. Fusion missile is instant and auto-crit. Emergency scan also applies a HoT. rapid scan is instant and heals you in addition to your target.stuff like that. that could be a fun mechanic that isn't OP, because one use and it's gone. so once every 9 seconds in melee range you have a nice boost...but it isn't a class defining change.
Cash got most of this, but it wouldn't be a DPS increase. In PVE, if you're taking alacrity talents as you should be, it's a minor DPS decrease. For non-alacrity taking mercs/commandos the damage over time would be the same. We'd actually get a slight nerf to ammo regen since with an instant cast it takes the ammo at the beginning of the GCD instead of at the end.

But it would absolutely give us the ability to get out damage when melee get in our face which is the biggest issue for us in PVP. Sniper comparisons aren't quite perfect, you're right, but then they can't be leapt to OR interrupted when in cover, and with Entrench running (33% uptime naturally, close to 50% uptime when specced into it) are completely immune to CCs. Given that, run and gun doesn't seem so bad to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by dejavy View Post
Nothing will be given. NOTHING. Remember my words. New fireworks to celebrate and some other crapy stuff. That's it.
You aren't saying anything ground breaking here. I think most of us KNOW that we could produce the most balanced class ever and BW would still give us nothing. I don't expect them to do much, but I'll damn sure keep complaining till I unsub, get banned, or they actually change things.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.09.2012 , 07:10 PM | #65
I like your ideas very much. Don't dare to touch the damage, just increase our survivability, mobility and damage frequency.

What I really like is that Run and Gun would be tied to Rocket Punch (is that Stockstrike btw?....sorry I only have a commando), which I almost never use in PvE. In long 7-10-15 minute ops boss encounters I actually want to have my Grav Round/Tracer Missile to have a cast time, so I don't drain my ammo too quickly, when I need sustained DPS.

So having Run and Gun tied to a melee attack that you only use in PvP anyway is an awesome idea. You can fire off quick abilites in a tight situation in PvP but it doesn't affect damage frequency, when you're fighting at range (where you should always be) both in PvP and PvE.

One quick change, though. I'd welcome the idea to be able to cleanse Force abilities. In fact it is annoying in fps, ops and mainly warzones, where there's an overabundance of Jedi/Sith debuffs. But if we get the ability to cleanse Force, it would only be fair to give the same ability to Scoundrel healers and the ability to cleanse Tech debuffs for Sages. All healer classes should be able to cleanse every type of debuff I reckon.

All in all, great ideas here. Hope BW reads this.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 08:00 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
I like your ideas very much. Don't dare to touch the damage, just increase our survivability, mobility and damage frequency.

What I really like is that Run and Gun would be tied to Rocket Punch (is that Stockstrike btw?....sorry I only have a commando), which I almost never use in PvE. In long 7-10-15 minute ops boss encounters I actually want to have my Grav Round/Tracer Missile to have a cast time, so I don't drain my ammo too quickly, when I need sustained DPS.

So having Run and Gun tied to a melee attack that you only use in PvP anyway is an awesome idea. You can fire off quick abilites in a tight situation in PvP but it doesn't affect damage frequency, when you're fighting at range (where you should always be) both in PvP and PvE.

One quick change, though. I'd welcome the idea to be able to cleanse Force abilities. In fact it is annoying in fps, ops and mainly warzones, where there's an overabundance of Jedi/Sith debuffs. But if we get the ability to cleanse Force, it would only be fair to give the same ability to Scoundrel healers and the ability to cleanse Tech debuffs for Sages. All healer classes should be able to cleanse every type of debuff I reckon.

All in all, great ideas here. Hope BW reads this.
Pretty sure he said elsewhere that all heal specs should be able to heal all kinds of debuffs. I agree.

And yes, Rocket Punch is the mirror ability of Stockstrike.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 10:05 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
I like your ideas very much. Don't dare to touch the damage, just increase our survivability, mobility and damage frequency.

What I really like is that Run and Gun would be tied to Rocket Punch (is that Stockstrike btw?....sorry I only have a commando), which I almost never use in PvE. In long 7-10-15 minute ops boss encounters I actually want to have my Grav Round/Tracer Missile to have a cast time, so I don't drain my ammo too quickly, when I need sustained DPS.

So having Run and Gun tied to a melee attack that you only use in PvP anyway is an awesome idea. You can fire off quick abilites in a tight situation in PvP but it doesn't affect damage frequency, when you're fighting at range (where you should always be) both in PvP and PvE.

One quick change, though. I'd welcome the idea to be able to cleanse Force abilities. In fact it is annoying in fps, ops and mainly warzones, where there's an overabundance of Jedi/Sith debuffs. But if we get the ability to cleanse Force, it would only be fair to give the same ability to Scoundrel healers and the ability to cleanse Tech debuffs for Sages. All healer classes should be able to cleanse every type of debuff I reckon.

All in all, great ideas here. Hope BW reads this.
thanks for your support!

and yeah, i also agree that all healing specs should be able to cleanse all debuff types. it is a confusing mechanic the way bioware designed it, and would make more sense for all healing specs to be able to actually cleanse the debuffs their allies get

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
12.10.2012 , 05:35 AM | #68
If you are going to suggest changes please take your PvP blinkers off and think how they effect the game as a whole.

Run 'n Gun would require PvE Mercs to be in melee range at all times in order to abuse it, dramatically changing the gameplay for a lot more players than it would help, and also having a huge effect on DPS.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 10:18 AM | #69
Sorry but Run'n'Gun is overpowered. You get too much mobility and burst for a ranged DPS class.

Quote:
- change Deguass, a tier 3 box, to the following: Energy Shield has a [50 / 100]% chance to remove all movement-impairing effects when activated and a [50 / 100]% chance to be immune to all movement-impairing effects for the duration of Energy Shield
Jesus Christ, you are asking for a hydraulic overrides on a ranged class? You serious? I can get the shield with the 2 different set bonuses to 15 seconds, haha, i got damage reduction and immunity to every root and knockback for 15 seconds.

Quote:
- change Cure Mind, a tier 5 box to the following: Cure now removes negative mental AND FORCE effects and heals the target for X
Holy Raptor Jesus. You are asking for an universal cleanse??? How about some weaknesses? Sorc healers being vulnerable to tech debuffs while ops and mercs being vulnerable to force debuffs. And you suddenly want to be able to eliminate any debuffs in game with just one spamable cleanse?

After terrible suggestions like these, i don't know who has no clue about mercs balance, you or bioware. Dude, you are heavily biased in favor of your merc. You are basically asking it to be OP instead of balanced. It's the same as if I, a sniper would be asking to get stealth scan and passive stealth detection +3.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.10.2012 , 11:04 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
If you are going to suggest changes please take your PvP blinkers off and think how they effect the game as a whole.

Run 'n Gun would require PvE Mercs to be in melee range at all times in order to abuse it, dramatically changing the gameplay for a lot more players than it would help, and also having a huge effect on DPS.
huh? rocket punch is a melee ability. Run and Gun wouldnt increase the rate of fire for Tracer Missile, Power Shot, or Fusion Missile (all 1.5s casts = 1 GCD). PvE DPS would lose nothing by not using it, and gain nothing by using it.

the only possible major effect Run and Gun would have is for a Bodyguard merc (3 Rapid Scan instants), which would allow them to get 3 heals out quicker (1.5s instead of 2s). this would have an adverse effect on heat management tho. but Merc healers are already fine in PvE, and wouldnt need to use Run and Gun; they would be 100% fine without it.


Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Sorry but Run'n'Gun is overpowered. You get too much mobility and burst for a ranged DPS class.
Run and Gun would ONLY be gainable from Rocket Punch, which means we are in melee range. which is where we need the most help, we cant do crap against melee opponents right now. and Run and Gun *DOES NOT* increase the rate of fire or the damage of Tracer Missile, Fusion Missile, or Power Shot. it functions the exact same as Power Surge, but allows the use of 3 abilities rather than 1.

Quote:
Jesus Christ, you are asking for a hydraulic overrides on a ranged class? You serious? I can get the shield with the 2 different set bonuses to 15 seconds, haha, i got damage reduction and immunity to every root and knockback for 15 seconds.
Hydraulic Overrides
Instant
Cooldown: 30s
Grants 8 seconds of immunity from movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%.

What i have suggested for Pyrotech is to allow immunity to ROOTS AND SLOWS (movement impairing effects). you would still be susceptible to knockdowns and physics effects, and would receive no movement speed increase. so explain to me how i am asking for Hydraulic Overrides?

and if you are taking the armor set bonuses for the Energy Shield duration as a DPS class, you are doing it very very wrong.

Quote:
Holy Raptor Jesus. You are asking for an universal cleanse??? How about some weaknesses? Sorc healers being vulnerable to tech debuffs while ops and mercs being vulnerable to force debuffs. And you suddenly want to be able to eliminate any debuffs in game with just one spamable cleanse?
if you have even read TWO POSTS ABOVE YOURS you would have seen that i have been suggesting that change for ALL HEALERS. limiting what debuffs can be cured to only certain healing classes is a very clunky mechanic, and it would make life much better for healers if they could reliably cure debuffs from their allies.

Quote:
After terrible suggestions like these, i don't know who has no clue about mercs balance, you or bioware. Dude, you are heavily biased in favor of your merc. You are basically asking it to be OP instead of balanced. It's the same as if I, a sniper would be asking to get stealth scan and passive stealth detection +3.
pull your head out of the sand please. you offered no logical arguments against any of my suggestions other than "OH SWEET JESUS THAT WOULD BE SOOOOOOOO OVERPOWERED!!!11!!!". stealth scan? passive stealth detection is already wicked high, dont think you need any help with that. just open your eyes.

before you post again, i suggest you read some of the thread. every single change i proposed focuses on utility and mobility enhancement. Merc is at the bottom of list, by a significant margin, in each of those categories right now.