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They should have kept developing the "fourth pillar"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
They should have kept developing the "fourth pillar"

Kendaric's Avatar


Kendaric
12.09.2012 , 04:50 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
The development strategy of concentrating on story failed.
The development strategy of being able to solo everything has failed in every MMO except WoW.
And the current strategy of concentrating on endgame only is working?

Classic endgame doesn't appeal to everyone and without further story content and/or sandbox features/exploration I don't see this approach working either. If the current "endgame only" / "raid or die" direction is the future of SWTOR, they won't expand their playerbase and most likely continue to lose players. For now, we'll have to see what Makeb brings and whether it really introduces new systems to the game.
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Vis-Tecum's Avatar


Vis-Tecum
12.09.2012 , 04:56 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Those development decisions were made years ago based on the assumption/gamble that TOR would be a huge hit and thus story content would be an essential element of all MMO's that followed. You can pretty much bet that had TOR's dud status been known 2 or 3 years ago, nobody would be putting story and cinematics in the games.
yeah im sure that was what arenanet, funcom, zinimax, and carbine were all thinking "man swtor is gonna blow us out of the water if we dont have voice over and cutscenes" looks like they are all screwed now lol

I really doubt a upcomming mmo with no release date and a developer new to the genre influenced these developers years before swtor released over growing trends in the industry. because thats how buisness works
Just go riding right by me on the crest of the new wave

SaijaRii's Avatar


SaijaRii
12.09.2012 , 05:21 PM | #63
For me, leveling already takes to long as it is. For me, MMOs are about endgame. The journey quickly outlives its welcome. I am not going to complain about lack of content however because I am a PvPer so I don't consume endgame content faster then it is released.

PvPers are easy to please. It's so shocking that MMO developers consistently fail to please us. I haven't been pleased since Warhammer.
There is nothing older than the idea that this is new. ~ Thomas Sowell.

Fireswraith's Avatar


Fireswraith
12.09.2012 , 06:48 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Vis-Tecum View Post
but they did wait for the story to end before they left
True that.

Revanchis's Avatar


Revanchis
12.09.2012 , 11:23 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Angedechu View Post
A huge issue of TOR is that the story, while being good (1) is not, by a huge margin, the most important part of the 1-50 experience.

Non storyline quests tend to be....welll...bad.



(1) Just ''good''. I might be getting old, but I find TOR story just ''good''. I have bought every single SW book ever released (except the ones by Karen Traviss), and frankly, the TOR ones are not, by far, my favorites. Some storylines, like the JK one, are not very imiginative to say the least. To be honest, I found TOR storylines a notch below Dragon Age, Mass Effect and especially KOTOR.
Agreed, I'm not sure why everyone thinks this game is an amazing singleplayer game trying to be an MMO. The game doesn't hold a candle to Mass Effect, even counting the ending.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
LOL well, if they had known that, they wouldn't have made the game to being with.
Ya, and then maybe they'd have made KotOR 3. We'd all be singing Bioware's praises then. It'd be another amazing Bioware RPG, with a classic story and relatable and lovable characters.

SkuzBukit's Avatar


SkuzBukit
12.10.2012 , 02:19 AM | #66
In an ideal world Story progression would be a regular thing, the problem is I don't think it can be streamlined to the point where "episodic" story-based content can be churned out at a reasonable time-frame (to most players, let alone the hardcore story-pursuers), I think the game would need to grow much larger in player-base for that amount of investment to be economically viable.

I think Horizontal progression and depth would be best served by an expansion of system-based gameplay, more world-building & further sand-boxing of the game, once players have a stream of content they themselves help generate the burden upon keeping players engaged lessens enough to perhaps divert some resources into creation of a continuing narrative with tangible content for players.
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GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
12.10.2012 , 02:43 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Lium View Post
I know pre-launch, BioWare was mocked a bit for always talking about story anytime they talked about this game. The most common criticism you heard about SWTOR before it launched was that it sounded like a single player game with co-op content thrown in. That MMO gamers wouldn't buy off on that, and that they are mostly concerned with progression. As in, gearing up their characters once they get to max level.

This has proved to be a double-edged sword. Though hindsight is always 20/20, it's clear that if BioWare really did want to do something different or tweak the MMO model, they should've by and large ignored MMOers. I've come to this conclusion after playing a Jedi Sentinel to 50, and then being consigned to the dailies/hard mode flashpoint grinds.

SWTOR became instantly unfun to me. I even made a thread about it a few weeks ago about how I don't enjoy being 50. However, I recently started playing a new character who is now only level 17, and I'm having a blast again.

Why?

Because of the story. This game shines from 1-49. This game becomes like any other MMO at 50: boring, tedious, and redundant. MMO'ers will always demand content. And they will always demand it at an unrealistic pace, and then once that content is released, they will consume it much faster than any developer cam make new content.

In this way, the game becomes a never ending self fulfilling prophecy of doom. People will always complain there's not enough to do and that the game is boring. And developers will always continue putting out content that is essentially more of the same in different skins. You hear this in nearly every single MMO out there today, including WoW.

SWTOR could have - and still can be - different. Because what it needs the most right now is not another raid or warzone (though I know that's what we are getting.), but Chapter 4. That's what it needs right there - Chapter 4.

You advertise a game as being all about story and the fourth pillar, and create a really enjoyable experience while leveling. Why, then, are you surprised that no one is sticking around when the story ends? This could have been the best way to make SWTOR have longevity and truly do something a bit different than anyone else on the market. By putting out new content that is focused on your hero's continued journey. Flashpoints, warzones, operations, all that stuff is fine and dandy, but these play into MMOer's hands, a fickle demographic that is a) never satisfied, and b) always says they want something different when in fact, they only want more of the same.

Not saying you can't focus on those things: we have to gear progression and all of that, but end game is truly a different game than the journey.

And SWTOR is probably the first MMO I've ever played where the journey was truly what the adventure was all about..
They should have concentrated a lot more on class stories (and the audience they already had instead of pipe dream of taking on WoW), have much bigger class stories and way less generic crap quests.

I have many friends who were loyal customers ( since Baldurs Gate days) of BW and didnt touch SWTOR with a pole because its just WoW clone and even class stories are quite bland (yeah yeah, best in MMO but far far away from best RPGs out there).

Sad thing is they are now moving completely to generic MMO crap quests, mission dropboxes and failed raid for gear endgame. And, TBH, other MMOs do it much better, they are dropping their strenght and embracing their weakness, dont really see which genious in EA thought its a good idea.

Anyway, BW lost majority of its fanbase since DA2 onwards, SWTOR was just finger in the eye by EA.

RIP Bioware, it was a good run and we still have BG

wrmrstacrdwower's Avatar


wrmrstacrdwower
12.10.2012 , 03:27 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Kendaric View Post
And the current strategy of concentrating on endgame only is working?

Classic endgame doesn't appeal to everyone and without further story content and/or sandbox features/exploration I don't see this approach working either. If the current "endgame only" / "raid or die" direction is the future of SWTOR, they won't expand their playerbase and most likely continue to lose players. For now, we'll have to see what Makeb brings and whether it really introduces new systems to the game.
Looking for Raid or any end game oriented looking for group would help with that.
Emokin for President!

Lium's Avatar


Lium
12.10.2012 , 10:28 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by SkuzBukit View Post
In an ideal world Story progression would be a regular thing, the problem is I don't think it can be streamlined to the point where "episodic" story-based content can be churned out at a reasonable time-frame (to most players, let alone the hardcore story-pursuers), I think the game would need to grow much larger in player-base for that amount of investment to be economically viable.

I think Horizontal progression and depth would be best served by an expansion of system-based gameplay, more world-building & further sand-boxing of the game, once players have a stream of content they themselves help generate the burden upon keeping players engaged lessens enough to perhaps divert some resources into creation of a continuing narrative with tangible content for players.
This is essentially what I recommended in an earlier post. The majority of resources would go into class story development, while the rest of the game would be more sandbox, and allow players to generate their own content. This would keep players engaged while the developers work on the next chapter of their story.

NSStember's Avatar


NSStember
12.10.2012 , 10:43 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Lium View Post
And SWTOR is probably the first MMO I've ever played where the journey was truly what the adventure was all about..
I totally agree with you. In fact, the story is so good here that I've made characters of classes I never would have even wanted to try in other MMOs. This game is all about experiencing all eight stories. Honestly, once my characters hit 50 they get shelved (oh sure a few dailys here and there and some FPs), but most of my online time is leveling a new char to discover a new story. This is the opposite of most other MMOs where the "leveling story" is just filler to get to "end game", where the real game hits. I mean why else do you think you can pay in WoW to change your race and faction? Because there really is no "story" as you level up, just a strung together series of "mini plots". SWTOR has really changed the mold and raised the bar with a complete unique story for each of their classes.