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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 01:20 PM | #491
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
i like candy corn


this is all wildly speculative, and i kinda cba. bioware has barely mentioned anything about how the new level cap will affect class balance.

like others have said, balance now before adding new stuff. that is common sense.
Don't lie. No one likes candy corn. And I agree, the class needs help now. BW has a habit of trying to fix things once all the players have gone elsewhere.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 01:24 PM | #492
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Don't lie. No one likes candy corn. And I agree, the class needs help now. BW has a habit of trying to fix things once all the players have gone elsewhere.
i like the pumpkin candy corn tbh

i just dont get what is so hard about having an open dialogue between the players and the devs. its clear we have a better understand of how the game works in real-world situations. metrics can only give you so much, and they never account for the massive unpredictability that player skill has. if they looked at all winning teams in ranked WZs, im sure they would see a theme develop rather quickly......

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 02:55 PM | #493
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
i like the pumpkin candy corn tbh

i just dont get what is so hard about having an open dialogue between the players and the devs. its clear we have a better understand of how the game works in real-world situations. metrics can only give you so much, and they never account for the massive unpredictability that player skill has. if they looked at all winning teams in ranked WZs, im sure they would see a theme develop rather quickly......
Yeah I just don't know. Can we really blame metrics for the change to stockstrike/rocket punch? I just don't know anymore.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
12.09.2012 , 03:09 PM | #494
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Yeah I just don't know. Can we really blame metrics for the change to stockstrike/rocket punch? I just don't know anymore.
Probably not.

So I would place the blame on individuals that have never, or very rarely, played a commando.

Bluntron's Avatar


Bluntron
12.09.2012 , 03:14 PM | #495
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
you will be reducing ~1% more damage, give or take. personally, i would take the extra Aim + End. Bracers/Belt are a great place to swap out a bit of expertise for +Aim and +End
looks like I have a bit of remodding to do then when 1.6 comes out.

OldRepublicRevan's Avatar


OldRepublicRevan
12.09.2012 , 06:05 PM | #496
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Yeah I just don't know. Can we really blame metrics for the change to stockstrike/rocket punch? I just don't know anymore.
The only people responsible for any blame is Bioware and its team of Developers. The blame falls 100% on them for relying on some stupid chart to decide how pvp is working.

To balance pvp once and for all it will require the team of Developers at Bioware to actually sit down and play pvp amongst us. By us I mean the players on the servers. They need to get in there and mix it up with us to get a true taste of what pvp is like for mercs/commandos. They need to stop pvping amongst themselves and actually try to grind up a toon from the start to see just what kind of a headache it is to be a merc/commando.

For those of us who have one of either of these advanced classes we all can agree it is ******. We can do amazing damage if left alone but 99% of the time any melee locks onto us we are dead. We can run around for a bit but once the medpacks have been used and determination has been used we're dead men/women walking.

We can complain all day and all night long on these forums but they wont listen. There is a reason this thread is so long and so full of users posting and so few developer posts. 1.6 isn't going to change anything for our advanced class. Melee will still rule pvp and sorcs will still be able to wreck our **** with the madness hybrid spec.

1.6 is just going to weed out the ******* and the wannabe ****** mercs/commandos. Leaving only the diehard and totally committed players playing this class.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 06:39 PM | #497
the things is, what metrics indicate that the knockback on rocketpunch needs a change? what metrics say that the CGC dot for Mercs should have its slow reduced to 30%?

either bioware is listening to the wrong people, they arent listening at all, or they just downright dont know how to play the class to its highest potential (albeit still weak compared to other classes).

i think it is a mix of all 3.


is there going to be another guild summit type deal? maybe that could be used as a way to get a face to face discussion going.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.09.2012 , 07:35 PM | #498
Possibly. They'd have to invite some PVP focused guilds though, and those guilds would have to be concerned about merc/commando DPS. But what top tier PVP guild is using any commando mains in their ranked teams?
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.09.2012 , 07:38 PM | #499
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
the things is, what metrics indicate that the knockback on rocketpunch needs a change? what metrics say that the CGC dot for Mercs should have its slow reduced to 30%?
BW's ingame collected stats show that Merc dps does more damage than other dps classes. That is the dominant factor that has driven 12 months of nerfs to the subclass. And throughout that process, the more BW nerfs Merc dps, the better Merc dps ingame collected stats look. Which is why the nerfs keep coming.

What Bioware does not comprehend is that player migration causes a inverse relationship between buffs and class performance. The more a class is buffed, the more new players/rerolls surge towards that class. The influx of undergeared, inexperienced players lowers that classes meta average productivity - which is what BW measures. Conversely, when a class is nerfed, the people who leave that class are the worst players using that class - as they are the ones who now find the class non-viable. The ones who remain are the best geared, most skilled players. Thus the meta average productivity for a nerfed class actually RISES.

We have seen this phenomenon in action multiple times. The 1.1 nerfs to Operative dps followed by BW's need to nerf them again in 1.2 is a prime example. In more recent times, the surge in Mara/Sent dps toward the Focus/Rage spec actually lowered that spec's meta average productivity. Which lead BW to buff them further. Conversely, as Mara/Sent players fled the Anni/Watchmen spec, those left were the higher productivity players. Which lead BW to nerf them, despite the widespread knowledge amongst the player base that they were the weakest Mara/Sent spec.

The bottom line is that player migration renders BW's ingame stat collection irrelevant. The ingame stat collection code should be removed and the server CPU cycles saved should be used to improve server performance.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.09.2012 , 07:38 PM | #500
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Possibly. They'd have to invite some PVP focused guilds though, and those guilds would have to be concerned about merc/commando DPS. But what top tier PVP guild is using any commando mains in their ranked teams?
eh, i would maybe show up. im in a pvp guild!