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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
12.08.2012 , 03:55 AM | #1711
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Premade 2-3 casual players itself is not a problem.

The problem is ranked 4-man premade of hardcore players on regular wz.
So what you mean is people in better gear should not be able to premade against premades in crap gear?

The problem is the gear gap then?

Juusto's Avatar


Juusto
12.08.2012 , 03:57 AM | #1712
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Premade 2-3 casual players itself is not a problem.

The problem is ranked 4-man premade of hardcore players on regular wz.
Most matches even one player can contribute to the outcome so much it guarantees a victory.
Juusto - Maatuska - Puuppa - Hupsis - Hupsista - Aa-Kee - Giftless
Server : The Tomb of Freedon Nadd
Guild : Harbinger

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
12.08.2012 , 04:20 AM | #1713
Quote: Originally Posted by Juusto View Post
Most matches even one player can contribute to the outcome so much it guarantees a victory.
I disagree. It might be so on your server, but on mine certain matches are pretty much determined as soon as you see the opposing team composition if you are pugging.

LenrocNewDawn's Avatar


LenrocNewDawn
12.08.2012 , 04:46 AM | #1714
@PioGreen.
I'm going to be Captain Obvious here but ... all competitions have winners or losers. The key of a good competition is balance between competitors, not fun to watch a fight between one holding a AK-47 and another holding a knife. I think we agree so far . Now, we get a fair share of unbalanced WZ fights in SWTOR (frequency differs from server to server , The Red Eclipse is not that bad FYI) and , while I'm not holding my breath for 1.6 still I have high hopes for it to address some of the variables that cause imbalance. Split queues are just a band-aid over the entire issue and I really don't think it's the way to go but in all honesty even a band-aid can stop a bleeding sometimes and allow time for a life saving intervention/solution to be reached.

On a personal note , I find myself PvPing less and less. It could be the 11 months of doing the same thing but I feel that getting in one-sided matches a bit too often for my taste has something to do with it. I'm not good at PvP but I'm not clueless either and I got in some matches that sucked the playing PvP desire out of me for couple of days after. And if I as a veteran (like in old) player feel that way I wonder how a rookie (as in new) will feel after such experiences.

TL;DR Something needs to be done! Let's hope 1.6 will be the first good PvP patch.
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
12.08.2012 , 05:28 AM | #1715
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Premades are ruining PvE raids too. I always ask random people if I can join their raid but they always claim to be full of guildees. Its clear that their guild is just exploiting the respawn timer of bosses to kill them every week for momentary gain. How can this be allowed?
lol wut? That's kind of the point of being in a guild. Not sure if you're serious or trolling. As for the weekly reset on bosses, that's sort of the point of raiding/slowing down gear progression, only 1 clear per week, then locked out. There's nothing wrong with that at all, I'll go ahead and answer for bioware here and say "Working as intended" in terms of being able to clear an op once a week, lol. Seriously though, are you trolling? Either way, thx for the lulz.
Lightsabers, Force Choke, Force Lightning, Jedi Mind Tricks, what else could you want from an MMO? There may be other MMOs out there, but do they have Lightsabers?....Do They?

Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
12.08.2012 , 06:39 AM | #1716
Quote: Originally Posted by LenrocNewDawn View Post
@PioGreen.
I'm going to be Captain Obvious here but ... all competitions have winners or losers. The key of a good competition is balance between competitors, not fun to watch a fight between one holding a AK-47 and another holding a knife. I think we agree so far . Now, we get a fair share of unbalanced WZ fights in SWTOR (frequency differs from server to server , The Red Eclipse is not that bad FYI) and , while I'm not holding my breath for 1.6 still I have high hopes for it to address some of the variables that cause imbalance. Split queues are just a band-aid over the entire issue and I really don't think it's the way to go but in all honesty even a band-aid can stop a bleeding sometimes and allow time for a life saving intervention/solution to be reached.

On a personal note , I find myself PvPing less and less. It could be the 11 months of doing the same thing but I feel that getting in one-sided matches a bit too often for my taste has something to do with it. I'm not good at PvP but I'm not clueless either and I got in some matches that sucked the playing PvP desire out of me for couple of days after. And if I as a veteran (like in old) player feel that way I wonder how a rookie (as in new) will feel after such experiences.

TL;DR Something needs to be done! Let's hope 1.6 will be the first good PvP patch.
You will never have a competition with a level playing field in a game with gear progression in it. Remove the premades, you still have gear imbalances, and skill imbalances. 1.6 might address the gear imbalance temporarily (my opinion is little will change) but there are no changes the devs can make that will make those bad players from being bad (not saying all recruits are bad). At some point you have to take steps yourself, you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time. Sure no one wants to see the game die because they get stomped by stronger players but equally I dont want to see this game turn into a welfare fest for casuals either, that wont help the game in the long run. The whole point of pvp is to compete and improve you char, take that away and it will become completley dull for players also.

Cross server queues are needed, split queues im not so sure that is helping anyone since the compromise is already in the game - you field 4 players not 8, or you solo queue. Seens fair to me and i do both.

LenrocNewDawn's Avatar


LenrocNewDawn
12.08.2012 , 09:04 AM | #1717
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
You will never have a competition with a level playing field in a game with gear progression in it. Remove the premades, you still have gear imbalances, and skill imbalances. 1.6 might address the gear imbalance temporarily (my opinion is little will change) but there are no changes the devs can make that will make those bad players from being bad (not saying all recruits are bad). At some point you have to take steps yourself, you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time. Sure no one wants to see the game die because they get stomped by stronger players but equally I dont want to see this game turn into a welfare fest for casuals either, that wont help the game in the long run. The whole point of pvp is to compete and improve you char, take that away and it will become completley dull for players also.

Cross server queues are needed, split queues im not so sure that is helping anyone since the compromise is already in the game - you field 4 players not 8, or you solo queue. Seens fair to me and i do both.
No level playing field then we can't talk about competition.

Everyone starts as a "bad" (true some will always be "bad") and then they start getting better until they reach their maximum potential. But in order for that to happen devs need to make sure that the path from "bad" to "good" is as enjoyable as possible. I'm not asking to dumb down anything, never asked for a nerf and I very rarely comment on so called "OP" classes always saying that is my perceived opinion and not an absolute truth.
As time passes and the game matures steps need to be taken to ensure that the PvP playing field is as balanced as possible. I have no problem with guys that like gear progression or char improvement , I'd by lying to say I'm not enjoying a new piece of gear, and of course I understand that gear progression creates imbalance but bottom line is that w/o balance you can't have competition so the devs need to find an algorithm to match 16 imbalanced toons in two balanced teams. Of course it won't be perfect but they may as well try and give their best .

On final thing, if you try to justify pitting recruit gear players against WH geared ones by " ...you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time." you are mistaken. These guys should never compete against each other see my AK47-knife analogy. 4WH+4R vs 4WH+4R is another matter and I find it acceptable but for that to happen we need better matchmaking (which was announced).
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
12.08.2012 , 12:39 PM | #1718
You people understand that many optimized aug wh premade players are actually horrible players don't you? The skill softcap in this game is very low and if you are geared with a healer on many of the dps classes then you will do very well even as a horrible player.

Take sent for example. If I pug and fight a hard team I have to be very aware and use my cd's at the perfect times and attack the right ppl and not become the tab target etc. if I really want to be my best. However, if I am fighting a weaker team I don't do any of that and if I have a pocket healer then I will seriously destroy your team while spending far more time watching my tv than my computer screen.

Also, on my vguard and shadow I have seen almost every top geared smash/sweep char try backpedaling from me for the majority of our fight so that they could get range for leap. Even when I have been sub 50% and they started at 80% plus and I ended up winning because of it since I just attacked them outside of their range. This happens very often and I laugh so hard everytime. Are these the "skilled" pvprs?

There are some premaders that want competition, however these are rare. That is why REAL ranked matches (the kind that aren't some randoms or wintrading) are pretty rare and are even rare when some guilds have several premades running reg wzs.

Many of these people deep down know that they are not good and they want the system to stay as is so that they can continue to feel good about themselves. I have no problem with this in itself as I wish everyone could feel good about theirself however what I do have a problem with is that there is little competition in the current system and pvp is often boring when it could be great with more even matches.

Dorpire's Avatar


Dorpire
12.08.2012 , 01:35 PM | #1719
ran into a premade today ...somehow they got 7 of the same guild in there....7 smashy smashers and 1 ops healer. Somehow I didnt get the fun part of that wz. There seems to be fewer premades this weekend tho, maybe more solo ppl queing up to max out copmms I guess.

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
12.08.2012 , 02:52 PM | #1720
Quote: Originally Posted by Dorpire View Post
ran into a premade today ...somehow they got 7 of the same guild in there.
Opposing factions fight. One faction have two premades in queue (4 and 3), the other none. Matchmaker sets up a rep vs imp fight and lump the two premades together since they are on same faction.

faction matching > premade vs premade matching.