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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.06.2012 , 08:40 PM | #441
Quote: Originally Posted by rpeplins View Post
I patiently waded through all the pages of this topic.

I agree that what the perpetual 49's are doing (which I have personally encoutered on The Shadowlands) is not what was intended by the game design. I played DAoC which had an xp-off feature so you could stay at the battleground of your choice forever (Molvik was the favorite) and the feature has been present in many other games. The fact that the feature is not present here leads me to believe that Bioware does not expect you to be able to engage in normal experience earning activities and not advance towards your next level. Especially with the broad level range PvP bracket currently in place, which I think works pretty well overall.

The thing that I find most telling about this whole discussion has been the lack of attention paid to the effect on new players if this behavior flourishes. We want to encourage new players to PvP and to make it enjoyable for them so that they continue and the community grows. The demoralizing effect of walking into a Warzone as a new player and getting stomped can not be trivialized. While it could happen regardless, it's much more likely to happen if you have a great deal of "professional noob-stompers" on the other side. Having them on your own side won't matter, that won't be the experience they remember. Especially since the sub-50 PvP design encourages people to PvP at very low levels, the chance of having a good experience running into a decked out level 49 toon is pretty slim. If they have bad early experiences in sub-50 PvP, they are going to not participate in it, which means they will likely not participate in 50 PvP, and you have lost the chance to grow the PvP community.

If you want to gear up a lower level toon to have a gear advantage, that's fine, go for it, enjoy. But I would not be suprised to find that Bioware institutes a change that makes the ability to play warzones continually without gaining experience disappear.
I did bring this issue up. That it was COMPLETELY unacceptable that anyone should have a bad PvP experience from these exploiters. Thank-you for rendering my thoughts more eloquently.
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iHumanist's Avatar


iHumanist
12.07.2012 , 03:07 AM | #442
I still haven't run into any of this yet, and I've been doing a TON of PvP'ing in the 10-49 bracket lately. Sooner or later...
Arkinvis, Dark Lord of the Sith
"The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. The Force will change you. It will transform you."

chimex's Avatar


chimex
12.07.2012 , 09:13 AM | #443
The solution is simple, and has been stated many times in this thread. Make xp gains per medal instead of a block at the end. Also, for an incentive for others not wishing to stick at 49, have a bit extra exp at the end for the winning team.
The Progenitor (RP): Shazmi:<Crimson Moon>

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
12.07.2012 , 09:36 AM | #444
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Cool story bro.
Just tipped the scales in favour of this guy being added to the ignore list.

Another potential source of useful info lost; ah well.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Draych's Avatar


Draych
12.07.2012 , 12:01 PM | #445
Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
That technique isn't effective on my server - these people are determined to dominate the WZs. And it is becoming a more common practice - again. 2 weeks ago I didn't know of it. Now I encounter it a few times daily. I PvP daily.

I cannot imagine it is part of the intended mechanic. And until it's fixed - I think, should it follow the current trend, it is only going to get worse.

Funny -- you can see in this thread who isn't willing to put their big boy pants on.... lol
I PvP 16+ hours a day on my server. You're right. It's getting so very very common. It's literally happening every other game, there's are least 3 twinks inside (18k sins that hit for 5k a pop. 19k PT's that kill you two shots. Vice versa for imperial side. Pubs do it as well). Gear is part of the game, sure, but so is skill. Level 49's that continuously drop games so they don't hit 50 are doing nothing but griefing. They get nothing aside from the satisfaction of dominating lesser geared people who don't really stand a chance. Worse is when they roll a 4+-man team (you can literally run with 8 if you synch que). Before you start screaming 'You're a nub! Gear up!' I have. I leveled 9 level 50's. I did the BM gear grind on TWO toons before they made it easysauce. I also had two toons in champ/cent gear. The rest: Full BM. I've seen what the 50 bracket is like in recruit gear (4 toons: Op, Guard, Merc, Mara.), and I still did well in it. Any BM geared toon I jump in with, I can still do extremely well vs people in WH gear. I have a fighting chance. 'Breaking' the Bolster buff by modding out the way they do is just pathetic. The worst is when they're running around ~lvl 10-18 WITHOUT an Advanced class. Don't believe me? Try it yourself. A total of ~20k damage with a single master strike is a bit scary and broken.

I, myself, have tested this stuff. I threw entirely purple mods and gear on my guard at level 49 (I can afford what I can't get, but doing dailies I can mod an entire set of gear over the course of 5 days. It takes me MAYBE 30mins to do said dailies each day. I can make TONS of money selling these mods as well. It's not in my best interest that this stops. BUT, I can see new players, f2p players, and veteran players alike leaving this game because of this crap). I rolled half-defense, half-focus. Sat in Soresu form. My smashes were still netting 5k and I was literally unkillable. Thing is: I leveled up.

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.07.2012 , 12:21 PM | #446
Quote: Originally Posted by Draych View Post
I PvP 16+ hours a day on my server. You're right. It's getting so very very common. It's literally happening every other game, there's are least 3 twinks inside (18k sins that hit for 5k a pop. 19k PT's that kill you two shots. Vice versa for imperial side. Pubs do it as well). Gear is part of the game, sure, but so is skill. Level 49's that continuously drop games so they don't hit 50 are doing nothing but griefing. They get nothing aside from the satisfaction of dominating lesser geared people who don't really stand a chance. Worse is when they roll a 4+-man team (you can literally run with 8 if you synch que). Before you start screaming 'You're a nub! Gear up!' I have. I leveled 9 level 50's. I did the BM gear grind on TWO toons before they made it easysauce. I also had two toons in champ/cent gear. The rest: Full BM. I've seen what the 50 bracket is like in recruit gear (4 toons: Op, Guard, Merc, Mara.), and I still did well in it. Any BM geared toon I jump in with, I can still do extremely well vs people in WH gear. I have a fighting chance. 'Breaking' the Bolster buff by modding out the way they do is just pathetic. The worst is when they're running around ~lvl 10-18 WITHOUT an Advanced class. Don't believe me? Try it yourself. A total of ~20k damage with a single master strike is a bit scary and broken.

I, myself, have tested this stuff. I threw entirely purple mods and gear on my guard at level 49 (I can afford what I can't get, but doing dailies I can mod an entire set of gear over the course of 5 days. It takes me MAYBE 30mins to do said dailies each day. I can make TONS of money selling these mods as well. It's not in my best interest that this stops. BUT, I can see new players, f2p players, and veteran players alike leaving this game because of this crap). I rolled half-defense, half-focus. Sat in Soresu form. My smashes were still netting 5k and I was literally unkillable. Thing is: I leveled up.
Thanks Draych, for your insight. Clearly this isn't an isolated issue. Clearly - it's getting worse.

And I think it will only get more so.

The more people that come forward with issues because of these twinks using exploits - the better. Lets hope they give it attention in the near future.

Best,

Seena
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Draych's Avatar


Draych
12.07.2012 , 12:47 PM | #447
Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
Thanks Draych, for your insight. Clearly this isn't an isolated issue. Clearly - it's getting worse.

And I think it will only get more so.

The more people that come forward with issues because of these twinks using exploits - the better. Lets hope they give it attention in the near future.

Best,

Seena
Another major problem isn't that they're twinking at 49. Really, the bolster buff is so broken if you twink at lower levels, your skills hit even harder (It's designed to make up for the lack of utility/spec options at lower levels by making the few skills you do have access to, hit even harder! Thus why opting out of chosing an advanced class for a particular amount of time makes you extremely scary). We've got a group of 2 twink-sins an OP, and a jugg that run around at level 21. They've been there for about a week and a half. They're actually nastier than the 49's. A 4-man sorc team, same thing (They've been around for about 3 weeks, but I have rarely seen them in the past week. Still the same level though): They spam force lightning (Does about 1k a tick on you) the entire game, walk away with 350k'ish damage done in the WZ about 175k healing done. Dominate everyone. The level 31 modded gear from the Cartel Market has made the 31's a nightmare. They'll stay at 31 for weeks, you'll get into back to back to back games vs those players and while you're leveling up - They're not.

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.07.2012 , 12:59 PM | #448
Quote: Originally Posted by Draych View Post
Another major problem isn't that they're twinking at 49. Really, the bolster buff is so broken if you twink at lower levels, your skills hit even harder (It's designed to make up for the lack of utility/spec options at lower levels by making the few skills you do have access to, hit even harder! Thus why opting out of chosing an advanced class for a particular amount of time makes you extremely scary). We've got a group of 2 twink-sins an OP, and a jugg that run around at level 21. They've been there for about a week and a half. They're actually nastier than the 49's. A 4-man sorc team, same thing (They've been around for about 3 weeks, but I have rarely seen them in the past week. Still the same level though): They spam force lightning (Does about 1k a tick on you) the entire game, walk away with 350k'ish damage done in the WZ about 175k healing done. Dominate everyone. The level 31 modded gear from the Cartel Market has made the 31's a nightmare. They'll stay at 31 for weeks, you'll get into back to back to back games vs those players and while you're leveling up - They're not.
I have no problems with people, who aren't using exploits to stay at level 49 perpetually, twinking their toons with the best gear they can. None at all. This is totally within normal game mechanics - there will always be people who put the time into maximizing their gear, and it's something imo that should be a part of all MMOs - PVE and PVP.
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Draych's Avatar


Draych
12.07.2012 , 02:18 PM | #449
Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
I have no problems with people, who aren't using exploits to stay at level 49 perpetually, twinking their toons with the best gear they can. None at all. This is totally within normal game mechanics - there will always be people who put the time into maximizing their gear, and it's something imo that should be a part of all MMOs - PVE and PVP.
I can agree and disagree. People should be able to gear out their toons extremely well. Problem is; they're exploiting a system that wasn't meant to be exploited; ie staying at the same level (ANY level) perpetually is breaking game mechanics. They do at lower levels just like at level 49 so it's another way for them to twink and actually get more out of it. Here's an example of how this exactly works:

Level 40 toon, wearing only four pieces of gear (Helm, Boots, Dual blasters) all level 40 modded with blues

Health: 8624
Armor: 744
Damage Reduction: 10%
Defense Chance: 5.0%

Dmg Primary: 371-558
Dmg Secondary: 65-121
Damage Bonus: 153.7
Accuracy: 95.15%
Crit: 22.08%
Crit Multiplier: 55.07%

Now with 4 Purples replacing the blues. Level 29 mods
Health: 9565
Armor: 968
Same DR/DC

Damage (Pri): 411-619
Damage (Sec): 65-121
Same Acc
Crit: 25.22%
Crit Multiplier: Same

FULL level 29 pruple gear: Modded bracers and belt as well. VS (blues) In order to do this, you must remove said mod from the cartel market gear (like most purple gear), the rating of the mod is higher than the equip level, thus giving you an even larger boost (Gear requires lvl 31, the mods are lvl 29 [Rated at 30]. Again, most purple gear is like this)
Health: 17515 (12258)
Armor: 5699 (4325)
Dmg Reduc: 46% (33.4%)
Same DC

Damage 705-1020 (464-551)
Dmg 2ndary: Same
Bonus Damage: 396 (146.8)
Crit Chance: 35.55% (30.03)
Crit Multiplier: 75.01% (57.05%)

As you can see, the gains are really massive.
(edited for spelling)

Ybini's Avatar


Ybini
12.07.2012 , 02:33 PM | #450
simple fix, give proportional xp to exiters based upon what they'd get if they lost. Proportional meaning time in round vs length of a match.